It never ceases to surprise me how people take “I think” to mean “I didn’t think about this at all”. An intentional mystery is not indicative of a lack of care, and it may surprise some to hear that all of Doctor Who was also made up.
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I do think Chibnall had a plan, but he’s not in charge anymore so he doesn’t care what others do with it.
I have to say that I feel somewhat confused myself because from what the hints tell us in Most Wanted and what Ji Martin says, she’s pre-Hartnell. But from what Rob Valentine and the other behind-the-scenes people say, she might be 6B, or a future incarnation or from an alternate universe. She can’t be both definitely pre-Hartnell and somewhere from the Doctor’s timeline. So why are they saying one thing somewhere and another thing elsewhere?
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Why not? We have two time wars to explain away timey-wimey things like this! /hj
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Simply explained, they’re off their rockers. Pre-Hartnell is very obviously the intent going solely by the contents on the on-screen stories. 6B and future don’t really make any sense and alternate universe would just be ripe ammunition to delegitimise her status as the Doctor.
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I think they just said that to try and appease the no-believers…
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That’s very probable, yeah. It just struck me as odd. It’s as if they are too scared to go down the pre-Hartnell route definitely.
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-s
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I wish that the Fugitive Doctor had a clear role and purpose in Series 12 and 13, which was answering why the Doctor from Hartnell onwards doesn’t remember their previous lives, we know they were mind-wiped and reset into a baby, but what led to that actually happening, which would’ve made a great B plot through Flux, which simultaneously gives satisfactory answers while retaining mystery because you’re focusing on that incarnation and don’t have to reveal how many incarnations there were prior to Hartnell. I think showing the Fugitive Doctor breaking free from Tecteun’s psychological grip and standing up to her would’ve been a great character arc for the Fugitive Doctor, which gets her mind-wiped and reset into a child.
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I think in Fugitive of the Judoon, when Ruth’s true identity activated and she took down the Judoon, she should’ve shot some of them after ripping the Captain’s horn off, and on the Judoon Ship after Gat is killed, the Fugitive Doctor shows off her training and does a fast manoeuvre and shoots all of the Judoon around her. To really show how different the Doctor was Pre-Hartnell.
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I think that shows and emphasises that the Doctor is who they are now, not who they were before.
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I loved the Fugitive Doctor in the show, Jo Martin was fantastic but as has already been said, she was a plot device. Chibnall created her as part of the Timeless Child arc, she is a pre-Hartnell Doctor this seems explicitly clear in the show - but of course if people want to see her as part of 6b or from an alternate universe they can.
But beyond that, I think Chibnall created this addition to canon as something for future showrunners to have fun with, or ignore as they choose. I think he probably had a vague notion that BF would do something with the character, but hopefully we won’t get things explained. Why & how did she escape? I’m not really interested. Why is her TARDIS a police box? Personally I thought it was simply a creative decision, much more impactful to the audience.
I still hope for stories set during her time at Division - no TARDIS, leading a team on secretive missions behind enemy lines. Dirty Dozen or Where Eagles Dare style WW2 men on a mission stories that show a completely different side to the Doctor, with maybe some vague doubts creeping in?
But what we have so far is really good, the characterization of the Fugitive Doctor is spot on for me. In the Most Wanted extras some interesting mention of influences such as The Prisoner, Lost & Twin Peaks. I hope they lean into some of those influences as the range continues. & I think Robert Valentine has created a good tone for this range, & am looking forward to many more.
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What do you guys think about a Pre-Hartnell Doctor helping and saving people, who hates that she does that at the same time? Some people say that it ruins Hartnell’s Doctor character arc, how would you argue against that?
I was thinking for the Fugitive Doctor, helping and saving people could be a response to rebelling against Tecteun, perhaps as a way of trying to be better, not wanting to be like Tecteun, and/or because she knows what it’s like to be hurt by a monster (Tecteun), and not wanting others to be hurt by monsters. What do you guys think about that?
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I do not think it ruins Hartnell’s arc one bit.
One of the many things I like about the Timeless Child is the fact that the Doctor’s hidden incarnations are, well, hidden. Erased from the Doctor’s memory.
The First Doctor is, essentially, a fresh start, so the Fugitive Doctor does not change a thing about the First Doctor.
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I do like the idea that Ian and Barbara were actually helping the Doctor reclaim the identity he’d lost because of the mind-wipe.
Or if it isn’t like that, the Fugitive Doctor helping and saving people has nothing to do with Hartnell’s Doctor deciding to help and save people.
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This is exactly what I say to those who say that Pre-Hartnell Doctors ruins the Doctor.
Hartnell’s Doctor was the first of a brand new clean slate and beginning, completely reset into a baby, so he is still the First Doctor, and the choices he made are still unique to his incarnation despite what happened before the mind-wipe.
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I think it makes sense for the Doctor to always have some level of drive to save people, even the Fugitive Doctor. I think what makes the most sense for the character is when she saves people, and then makes an excuse for it to seem tougher, even to herself. Stuff like freeing the prisoners in Fast Times to ‘cause a diversion.’
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Yes, I love this!
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I believe a lot of the Doctor’s darker nature is down to being parented by Tecteun, she’s the kind of parent who’d shape their child into their own image, and they are quite similar to each other, selfish, manipulative, and adopt people.
I think Tecteun would use the fact that she found and adopted the Doctor to manipulate and make them do what she wanted, like saying to them that they’re in an eternal debt of gratitude for how she “rescued” and gave them a life. Narcissistic adoptive parents often have a saviour complex, that their children should be automatically grateful for how they were adopted, and not letting them grieve the fact that they had to lose something in order to gain something, and in the child’s case, they gained something bad.
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There was an early screening of Space Babies at Chapter Arts in Cardiff which I went to, and during the Q&A to Pam Downe, Joel Collins, Phil Sims, and Vicki Delow, because the reveals of Series 12 were referenced in the episode, there was this guy who didn’t ask a question but said to them that there being incarnations before the First Doctor ruins the character, and started going on a rant.
Oh my god it was so embarrassing, practically the entire audience groaned and laughed at him, me included. Luckily Phil Collinson who was in the audience turned back and said to him that the First Doctor is still the First Doctor. I still can’t believe that actually happened😂
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That sounds so annoying, I can’t stand people like that
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