Not to rain on @uss-genderprise 's parade, but I would advocate lowered expectations for Cyberwoman
I don’t think the Cybermen need fixing. The Chibnall era took the best approach to the Cybermen in any era of the new series. I love the Cyber-Masters and I love Ashad.
It is great that you love them. To me, they were completely meaningless. As @BillFiler wrote the best cybermen stories are when they really focus on the conversion of humans, and that gets completely lost in the CyberMaster plot.
I totally agree. And also it kind of stretches credulity that the Master basically could destroy Gallifrey and have the Time Lords converted as well, that’s no mean feat.
It must be said that I rather liked how the Doctor AI tricked the CyberMasters to reverse the forced regeneration in Th Power of the Doctor, that was a good use of the chess pieces already in place in the Chibnall era. What I don’t get is why Ashad was brought back as a clone by the Master in that one, story wise it would make no difference if it was a “generic” Cyberman menacing Kate Stewart.
And on the subject of Cybermen and the Chibnall era - Segun Akinola’s theme for the Cybermen was downright amazing and helped beautifully in setting the atmosphere when the Cybermen were involved
That’s true, but I appreciate Chibnall doing something different by showing the Cybermen converting a different species. It’s something that Supremacy Of The Cybermen touches upon too, and technically The Next Doctor with the Cybershades, who were once cats and dogs.
Fine, but now you’ve got me wanting to see CyberRutans.
Cybershades were once cats and dogs? So there are CyberKittens?
I think they missed a bet by having them just have normal cyberman heads. They should’ve just had cybermats that were actually cybercats…
I think this was entirely to make for a fun last hurrah. Narratively that’s a bit nothing, but fair play to him, he picked a good villain to come back and got another good performance out of him.
And I think the CyberMasters are pretty much the most interesting thing the TV show has done with the Cybermen since the 60s, but you don’t have the time for it in just two incredibly busy episodes. I hope we see them back.
This reminds me of my second favourite love song; Tim Minchin, “You Grew on Me” (which, thankfully, my wife also loves).
My top love song, by the way, (which my wife hates) is “If I didn’t have you…”.
Our love is one in a million,
You couldn’t buy it at any price,
But of the nine point nine nine nine
Hundred thousand other possible loves
Statistically some of them would be equally nice
Short answer: Ashad was cool.
Longer (speculative) answer:
The Master knows that Cybermen are powerful but predictable. Ashad’s not fully converted and a wild card (therefore more dangerous), but under the Master’s control now. Moreover, bringing Ashad back rubs the Doctor’s nose in it even more. The Master is always keen to humiliate the Doctor.
Plus maybe Chibnall realised retrospectively that killing off Ashad was a mistake in the first place.
He brought him back only to kill him off again though
I’m guessing he saw Ashad’s popularity and decided to bring him back. Ashad is such a great villain and has the potential to be like the Cybermen’s equivalent of Davros, in terms of how popular he is.
Is this where I confess that I like the Cyberlords…
I doubt the CyberMasters will appear again any time soon. Personally I liked the design from the Chibnall era but was sad they focused so much on the CyberMasters, which were just whatever really. (Then again the cybermen as much as i love them worked only for me in the Capaldi era, really liked Ashad but even he didnt got much time to etablishes himself as a threat)
Since a few people throw in some ideas for a future cybermen story:
- Doctor-Lite Story about a Mondasian
- Adapt the Flood (it’s such a good comic, probably my favorite cybermen design in this century)
- Cyberwars as @SweetAIBelle already mentioned having cybermen vs cybermen would be fun
- BRING BACK THE 80S CYBERMEN WITH DAVID BANKS AS THE CYBER LEADER AND WATCH THIS EPISODE SURPRASS THE VIEWING FIGURES OF CITY OF DEATH!!!
Besides that I hope when they come back they dont get the Smith era Treatment. (I know that Era probably has its fans with the cybermen but its two cybermen stories are really not my cup of tea)
imo
Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel > Capaldi era > Whittaker era > the rest of Tennant’s Era > Smith Era
For cybermen at least
I think Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel is the only time in Nu Who where we’ve really focused on the cybermen as an inevitability for humanity which is my favourite take on them.
That all said, It really does suck that nearly every single NuWho cyberman story has had the cybermen overshadowed by something else being the main plot of the episode
- Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel - The Alternate Universe
- Army of Ghosts/Doomsday - The Daleks
- The Next Doctor - The ‘Next’ Doctor
- Closing Time - Craig
- Nightmare in Silver - The only one that doesn’t, but also my least favourite cyber story, it doesnt’ focus on the conversion at all
- Dark Water/Death in Heaven - The Master
- World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls - The Master
- Villa Diodati - Mary Shelley/Historical Figures
- Ascension of the Cybermen/The Timeless Children - The Master
- The Power of The Doctor - The Master
That all said, there is one TV story that’s come out since 2005, has featured the cybermen as the primary threat, and has focused on conversion as a core part of the episode. In this essay, I will discuss how Cyberwoman is the best cyberman story to have come out on TV since the start of the revival. Not best story featuring the cybermen mind, but the best cyberman story.
This is what I’ve been saying! I really do think that Cyberwoman is the only episode (maybe except for Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel) to properly show the threat of the Cybermen. Seeing conversions actually happening and the threat that Cybermen actually pose (she gets stabbed in the stomach and fights a pteranodon and comes out completely unharmed!), and the thing that brings her down at the end isn’t even bullets, it’s her own humanity (yes, love. The only time that storyline was done well in my opinion). I could gush about this episode forever.
In this essay, JayPea and I will join forces to convert everyone on the planet into Cyberwoman fans. And then, the universe!
Yeah sorry you are never getting a 100% badge on that one.
Yes there is a good story somewhere within Cyberwoman, but it is not being told on the screen I am watching…
And I’ll never get over Gareth David Lloyd’s terrible acting at the end of this - though I know we don’t see eye to eye on that one