Episode Discussion: Rogue

Everyone’s gotta have their favorite little crack ship of characters who barely spend any time together /lh


One thing I meant to ask …

There’s a line in the scene when they first go into Rogue’s spaceship where Rogue makes some comment about ‘the new boss’. Am I overthinking it but might this relate to the the Meep’s boss? Or just whoever it is that is pulling the strings this series?


Entirely possible, but could go either way.

It’s still totally possible that the guy who had “Bad Guy” playing in the background when he was introduced could be a bad guy. :stuck_out_tongue:


I’ve seen some other people mention this too, definitely don’t think you’re overthinking it


I just figured that it was all The One Who Waits…


Well, Rogue’s ship is orbiting the moon, waiting…


Though to be fair anytime I hear the word “Boss” in Doctor Who:


Something from the third Doctor’s era eh? :thinking:


The AI in the Green Death was great! And it wasn’t an AI that went wrong, at least, according to the trope list. :stuck_out_tongue:


And John Dearth had the perfect voice for it!



This fits annoyingly well


Rogue! A flashy, sexy, romatic adventure featuring another shapeshifting race (like we don’t habe enough of them already) and a Captain Jack wannabe!

Here’s my notes:

What a classic cold open—there’s some real Bridgerton (no, I haven’t watched that show) action here, followed by a tease of yet another shape-shifting alien terror.

It’s a bit weird how we get no TARDIS arrival scene here. We are just instantly thrown into the ball with the Doctor and Ruby in full regalia. Ruby is introduced to the lords and ladies of the house while the Doctor investigates some alien interference. Why aren’t we getting any scenes in that new, big, expensive TARDIS set?

The costumes and sets are superb. This is easily one of the finest examples of a 19th century story that Doctor Who has ever done. The VFX is also solid, making this a very visually appealing episode.

Indira Varma returns to the Whoniverse having appeared in Torchwood back in the day (with a few turns in Game of Thrones and Andor along the way), playing the Duchess, and doing a great job out of it, especially in her Chuldur form.

It’s a joy to see Ncuti and Millie so clearly excited about this era and all the costumes and dances. The focus is on the Doctor again, and Ncuti takes great advantage of this, showing his sexier and softer side.

American actor Jonathan Groff (of Glee, Frozen, and Hamilton fame) is the title character, a Captain Jack-esque dashing bounty hunter who hits it off with Ncuti instantly. He can be dangerously charming, and you never quite know if he’s good or bad until later in the episode. And he has the same wit as Jack, so he’s definitely a potential fan favourite.

Murray Gold provides a wonderfully atmospheric score, especially during the tenser moments. The orchestral renditions of Poker Face and Bad Guy are fun additions.

Some of the deliberately Bridgerton-like relationship drama feels very artificial.

I like how the Doctor is involved with the creepy alien mystery while Ruby gets to experience 1813 through the people and the dances and gets the biggest share of the comical parts.

Okay, so the joke “My name is Bond, molecular Bond” is incredibly hilarious.

The entire sequence on Rogue’s ship is fun. The dancing to Kylie, the psychic paper joke, and Rogue believing the Doctor to be a shapeshifter. Richard E. Grant’s casual portrayal as one of the Doctor’s past incarnations is also noteworthy.

Given how frequently it has appeared on Who, the shapeshifter plot almost feels like an afterthought. The Doctor/Rogue relationship and Ruby’s fangirling get a lot of attention, so the alien threat takes a backseat until the third act, and even then it barely makes a dent.

Written by MCU writers Kate Herron and Briony Redman (of Loki fame), it makes it fun to see more shapeshifters and queer romance as a kind of homage to their previous work.

The aliens here are the Chuldur. They look cool (the makeup work is impressive) but aren’t very deeply developed. They could have been Zygons, Chameleons, Slitheen, or any other shapeshifter race.

That being said, it’s fun that these Chuldur are apparently a family, so they all have distinct appearances. Their most interesting (and silly) aspect is that they get kicks out of cosplaying humans at big, fancy parties and events.

I was just thinking that Ruby’s part in the episode is going nowhere when they reveal that she’s been with a Chuldur all along. Nice twist!

The episode’s second half is filled with excitement as the Chuldur unleash their destructive powers. This is where the Doctor is devastated by the apparent loss of Ruby and decides to furiously fight back. And then he realises his mistake, as Ruby only faked her fate and is put in real danger by the Doctor.

I have to say that Rogue’s final little trick to save the day is a very stylish way to end this episode. I wonder whether we’ll see him again, since the ending seems to make it possible.

Next week, it’s all about Susan Twist and who she really is! I am very excited to see where this goes!


I’m very much in the “The Doctor should always be aroace” camp, tbth I could barely stand Rose because of that, I liked other aspects of this episode though, and rogue is otherwise an interesting character

I’m wondering if The Shaka Doctor thing is going to be explained ever, or if it’s just going to be let to sit with no questions answered


100% that will just sit there in the same way the Morbius faces did in Timeless Child. It was there for the fans.


Until a future showrunner gets the reigns and decides we need an answer that is :wink:

Clearly it’s a part of the Great Intelligence that the swarm of Clara copies couldn’t excise from the Doctor’s time stream :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
I think my new fandom role is to troll anyone saying this means that the Shalka Doctor is canon :grin::grin::grin:


How long until curse of fetal death is equally canon? Oh I know, maybe they are both a side effect of the great intelligence messing with the doctors timeline!


It all makes perfect sense! :nerd_face::sunglasses:


My headcanon is Shalka is who 8/McGann would’ve regenerated into had the time war not happened.


I always thought it was this and had accepted it to simply be that. But I’m very interested by what overcomplicated nonsense they will make up to put Shalka in N space. Having never actually seen in whom the War Doctor regenerates might be a fun way to incorporate it. Whatever it’s gonna be, as long as it’ll require me several hours to wrap my head around I’ll be satisfied.


Honestly, given that the timewar undoubtedly wrote the timeline several times, it’s safe enough to claim that the Shalka doctor and the Curse of Fatal Death timelines were timelines that happened and then were undone (or perhaps still happened in alternate timelines but are no longer the main timeline).


And now there’s even bigeneration to add into the mix…