Episode Discussion - “Joy to the World” the Christmas special 2024

I disagree that TLJ set Kylo Ren up for redemption, it actually did the opposite, which makes what JJ did with the character more infuriating. The moment where Kylo kills Snoke mirrors Vaders redemption in RoTJ, but then subverts it when Kylo turns down Rey’s proposal to rejoin the light. He even doubles down, wanting to ‘kill the past,’ something that a lot of fans have mistakenly taken as the message of the movie. This rejection cements his role as the villain of the trilogy, having killed his father, and now more willing than ever to kill his own mother to wipe out the resistance and take control of the galaxy. This also plays into one of the primary themes of TLJ, that where you come from isn’t important. Rey is a nobody from nowhere and is the galaxies greatest hope, while Kylo, a man from a family of literal magical heroes, turns out to be almost completely evil. At this point narratively, there’s also no one to take his place, Snoke is dead and Hux is to much of a coward to be take seriously as a villain. JJ wasn’t left with nothing, he was left with a strong antagonist in the form of Kylo Ren, but instead made the decision to revive the Emperor because he didn’t want to continue the obvious path of Kylo being the main villain of the trilogy.

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I can see that. But when Kylo and Rey were presented as this “Dyad in the Force” and connected the way they were I really felt like the end was locked in with the end result being a redemption for Kylo. Even more so when it was announced that Abrams was coming back for the conclusion, The Force Awakens was so filled with nostalgia for the Original trilogy and “Star Wars tropes” that I never thought he would break that mold and not do a rehash of the Vader redemption arc.

I liked most of The Rise of Skywalker but it felt very, very predictable to me :slightly_smiling_face:

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If I’m remembering correctly, the connection between Kylo and Rey is established as something Snoke did in TLJ. The ‘force dyad’ stuff is introduced by JJ in RoS. I know it was set in stone what would happen once JJ was announced, but narratively I think Kylo didn’t really have a shot at redemption with what Rian set up.

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It was Snoke who made the connection between them in The Last Jedi, I just thought that it was a permanent thing he set up? I only saw those movies once each before seeing Rise of Skywalker, and have only rewatched them once maybe two years ago.
I don’t have the sequel trilogy (or the prequel trilogy) memorised basically word for word like I have with the original trilogy :wink:
I was just underwhelmed because I felt the outcome was too predictable.

And why wait until the third movie to bring in Lando! That’s the real travesty here! :triumph::wink:

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JJ and Rian continuing the tradition of screwing over Lando after he was barely included in Return of the Jedi :joy:!

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clears throat

points

A Galaxy Far Far Away - A Star Wars Thread

:point_up_2:

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I was about to link that!

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1000001726

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Well, that’s saved for future use.

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I’ve officially helped sidetrack a conversation! There’s a badge for that right???

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I wish. I’d have hundreds of them by now.

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I am glad that badge doesn’t exist. I am always on topic and would never get that.

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This quote from Moffat makes it even more moving for me:

”I knew I wanted to launch the star over Bethlehem. Originally, I was just going to blow up the suitcase over Bethlehem.

”But it occurred to me that Joy going from the woman who avoids Christmas to the star that creates Christmas, It would be such a wonderful story for her.

”All that love trapped inside her that she’s trying to deny suddenly spills out all over the universe. That just seems like a lovely way to, not to go out with a bang. She doesn’t go out the bang.

”She shines, she shines.”

— Steven Moffat, from Cinemablend

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I don’t know if it’s been talked about here yet but this is the first time I’ve encountered media discussing COVID in a way that didn’t feel ham-fisted. No scenes of people on zoom or wearing masks, just the naked and tragically familiar despair at not being able to be there while a loved one dies.

It’s been a bit since I’ve seen it and Joy to the World is sitting well with me.

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I quite liked this! It wasnt the greatest but I think it’s definitely on the higher end for christmas specials. It was both cozy and emotional which I think is good. I also loved the way they discussed COVID as like a real thing! That hurt people! Not just complaining about zoom calls or joking about not being able to hug. It was very emotional and real and it made me like Joy a lot more. Also the doctor spending time on earth is always nice for me.
Im happy 15 seems to have a consistent outfit style too, as much as i enjoy his different outfits from series 14, i think that it makes him harder to cosplay and keeps his character from having very distinct traits/silhouette. There needs to be a balance of variety and consistency, not a new outfit every episode but not 13 where she rarely changes at all.

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Interesting, I would have thought the changing wardrobe would provide more options to cosplayers, they could choose whichever of his outfits they want to dress up as. Personally I like the changing outfits, I like the Doctor to feel like they’re wearing clothes rather than a costume, and I especially like when they dress in period appropriate attire. When they change up the wardrobe it feels more like a person I’m watching rather than an actor playing a character.

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