Difficult one to answer, which is why I placed my thoughts in the ‘controversial’ thread - you have a character historically played as a straight white character that is now played as/by a black gay character and I find myself mentally tuning out of the show (for the record, I wasn’t keen on the latter-day Eleventh Doctor either, who turned his brilliant initial performances into an irritating arm-flapper that turned me away from Who a bit). I would say I don’t like the show as a whole now, but find Ncuti’s performance competent but not ‘Doctor-ish’. What do I mean by that? I would say the lack of presence and weight (I won’t use the G Word) in his acting makes it difficult for me to believe in him, and his standard reaction to jeopardy or danger - but perhaps I’m just being bigoted, even subconsciously. This would make it my ‘fault’ (an indelicate word), and not because of any missteps the style of the show has taken.
I could give a list of reasons why the above may or may not be true, that I may be black and/or gay myself, or mention various aspects of my personal life. But - and I say this as a champion of this forum and the posters - why should it be necessary to go to such lengths to justify not liking certain aspects of a television programme? This is said not with any desire to be snarky, just to try and explain how I feel about this usually wonderful show.
I think I’m more guilty of being a ‘dinosaur’ who grew up with the mysterious time-and-space traveller and rubber monsters! Perhaps I don’t like change, but I’ve enjoyed all the changes to the show thus far. Even then, why should I feel the need to guilty because of that?
I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I have to admit I did cotton onto the problem before it was outlined because of the lack of diversity in the casting of a usually highly diverse show. I’m afraid I didn’t find any aspect of the story subtle or clever at all!
Me neither (didn’t get the Sixth Sense twist till about 2 minutes before the reveal) but I would argue that just because you spotted it doesn’t stop it from being subtle or clever simply because, generally, the reaction to the episode seemed to be many more people falling for the unconscious bias.
I will stress that I don’t want to come across as antagonistic in any of these exchanges so apologies if I am. Make sure you call me out if I go too far!
I don’t think it’s your “fault” for having these biases. We all do. I don’t think you’re evil for them, either. The thing is, a lot of the things you complained about Fifteen saying are very much gay Black slang, and the stuff you complain about him doing or the way he acts is very much stereotypically gay things. That’s why it niggled at me.
I’ve had plenty of reactions like that to things like these in Doctor Who, including when the Doctor said “Yas, queen!” in Robot Revolution. But I immediately stopped, considered my reaction and challenged my biases. You’re allowed to dislike those moments. The important thing is to question why.
Sometimes it’s hard to quantify or explain a feeling. I haven’t really got on with the show since the end of 2017, for some reason. I didn’t gel with Whittaker the way I did with Eccleston, Tennant and Smith; I didn’t vibe with Chibnall’s writing style (although I could appreciate his approach to the show in some ways); etc. I still watch, and there are still elements I enjoy, still episodes I like, but I’ve just not felt the same with Who since 2017
This is why leaks are always a bad thing. I don’t understand why anyone wants to ruin anyone’s enjoyment of the show - either for themselves or others. A twist or reveal is in the story for a reason. The story will work around that beat so why ruin the story’s structure because you can’t bear not knowing everything ahead of time (and I stress this is not aimed at you but at leakers and the general culture around them nowadays).
I don’t think it makes sense to point out what makes the Fifteenth Doctor more or less human without taking into consideration what the show is trying to do with this incarnation - and has been consistently doing since the 60th specials - which is point out that the outgoing, happy and forever excited exterior is a persona.
Which is contrasted with how lonely he is - there is a reason why everbody is always pointing that out and I REALLY think RTD should’ve been stuffing that TARDIS with new things as a visual progression of his character - and with how he is trying to be more emotionally open. How alien he is shines when you see through the facade and remember how dangerous he can be - because the Doctor himself forgets it, at times. That’s what happens in that scene with Joy in the Joy to the Worlds, that’s what Belinda just pointed out in The Robot Revolution.
I will say, though, that this character arc doesn’t make any sense whatsover for me as a progression from Fourteenth when his conclusion is getting to rest, get his mental health in order and show him that he isn’t alone at all. On the contrary, he has the biggest family in the universe.
I think you’ve articulated a great point that I struggled to get to grips with. I’m just a bit lost as to the 15th Doctor. We also had that wonderful moment about chairs in the TARDIS, but he still hasn’t installed one after all that. He’s just a bit of a blur at the minute, and I’m not seeing a clear through-line for his journey. I don’t see much in the way of character progression or evolution, frustratingly. But I also appreciate that this Doctor does work for many - I just wish he worked for me.
I’m hoping they’re really going to push the ‘goofy manipulator’ thing on 15 - it works so well with 7 and 11, and I think Ncuti could do it marvellously
I’m interested in this kind of a turn too, but I’m curious as to what really would have brought it on, because there wasn’t much of that sort of behavior in the previous season. Though, manipulator 7 wasn’t really all that present in S24 and then we got how he was in Remembrance of the Daleks with no explanation immediately after, so maybe it doesn’t need much of an explanation.
I’m kinda thinking, well, with 6, you had the Doctor being abrasive, ego-centric, and very puffed up and full of himself. Then with 13, she was very young, people pleasing, using slang like “fam”, being very nice but ultimately not really letting people close.
So, get rid of 6’s abrasiveness, and add in the things I mentioned about 13 for 15…
I’m not always the best at character analysis, though.
I truly think it’s emotional. He is so lonely it’s getting dangerous. I liked that scene with Joy because every horrible word he said to her was true about him etc etc etc. He is projecting his feelings over people around him without much consideration for them (see: Belinda) (and that’s where the alien aspect of him shines the most for me) and that didn’t shine through season 1 simply because he was travelling with someone who fit him well. Since Ruby (two episodes, but still) I have the sensation he is getting a bit more desperate. I just don’t know if he knows what for (and if RTD knows what for).
You could, if you want, say that behavior comes from how the timeless child stuff changed his perception about themselves and how he has been feeling lonely since, a sentiment Ruby could empathise with easily because that’s how she felt about her bio mom. I think there was cleaner ways of setting all that up, but that’s what I get from it all.
as many of us did not, I feel
So I can’t really comment on if I’d have noticed or not.