I agree. That could be interesting. RTD started down that road a little in the 60th Specials. I’m of two minds on Chibnall. I’m not a huge fan of his Doctor Who stuff, but thought he was excellent in Broadchurch (especially Season 1). I am a little curious as to what he had planned for Series 13 before Covid threw a spanner in the works and if he had initially planned to continue on and do Series 14. It does seem that at least some of his writing suffers from running out of time and/or reacting to the fans (both for better or worse). Series 13 and the final specials seem especially both rushed and not tight enough (if that makes sense).
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We’ll surely get those stories in the future in Big Finish’s Lost Stories range 
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I used to be curious what he had planned for s13 but then I realized that even when given 90 full minutes for an episode, he would use the time he could’ve been spending explaining things or tying things up to introduce new plot points instead. So I don’t have much faith it would’ve been too much better.
I don’t think he would’ve come back for s14 either–I think Jodie Whittaker has gone on record that she and Chibnall agreed at the start that they were going to go in together, do five years, and then both leave.
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Retcon is a bit of a nonsense phrase for Doctor Who when the show has constantly changed its own rules almost from day 1. There really is no point saying ‘it didn’t happen in Classic Who’ when even ‘Classic Who’ couldn’t make up its mind what was ‘true’ or not.
Doctor Who is a tapestry and every part of it is beautiful in its own way - and it’s also important to remember that every part of it is special to someone. Just because we may, personally, not be keen on a story development or concept doesn’t mean it is ‘wrong’ to include in the show and that includes things like changing gender which, lets face it, have been openly discussed as a possibility since the 80s.
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My big thing with any fandom is that even if I don’t like it, I will always be happy if someone else does. There is far too much gatekeeping.
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It was more of a polite reminder to keep it civil.
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I was only suggesting a compromise that would allow for changing gender in the future while not contradicting the character as previously established in the past. Not trying to offend anyone. As I said I actually did like the Fugitive Doctor.
Absolutely - but the ‘contradicting the character as previously established’ is the bit that some of us disagree is an issue because all we ever actually had was inference. And we should also bear in mind that regeneration in and of itself was never really ‘established’ - at the start it was ‘rejuvenation’ (and the Doctor’s clothes changed as well, oddly) and - in lines cut from the script for time - was something the Doctor had gone through before. In Troughton’s time we are told explicitly that the Doctor can ‘live forever barring accidents’ but this is adjusted to a regeneration limit of 12 by the time of The Deadly Assassin and we see what happens to the Master when they hit their last life. In the modern series, suddenly the Doctor is able to regenerate body parts for a short while after regeneration and later, even direct the regeneration energy into old body parts to prevent a full regeneration. Then we see him holding off regeneration in Twice Upon a Time and we even see characters such as River Song and Jenny regenerating or surviving death through the same energy, despite not being actual Time Lords.
And now we’ve got bi-generation!
There really is little point clinging on to what was ‘established’ in Doctor Who because it’s entire mission statement seems to be to contantly mess around with what we think we know. The show would be all the poorer for being restricted to a rigid lore and it certainly wouldn’t still be here 60 years later stimulating debate and creativity in equal measure.
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I also don’t think the Doctor (or any other Time Lord) being a woman “retcons” anything at all. It wouldn’t be a “compromise” to say a new regeneration cycle means she was able to change gender, it would be a cowardly move. It’s a way to explain why there hasn’t been there a female Doctor previously in universe rather than acknowledging that they hadn’t hired a woman earlier because of misogyny. If a writer did that, it would be lifting responsibility and culpability for those decisions made both from their own and their predecessors’ shoulders.
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The thread specifically asked for our opinions on the Timeless Child which is why I stated mine - I wasn’t intending to start a debate! I totally respect that others may have differing views. I personally am not a huge fan of retconning per se (in anything, not just in Doctor Who!) and would rather only move forward, but I accept that this may be a minority view.
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I guess I don’t see why gender is the sticking point, then. If every single thing about the Doctor, inside and out, changes when they die, why wouldn’t they wind up with different sex characteristics and/or a different internal gender experience? I get not wanting to mess with stuff that’s already established, but I don’t get why gender is the quibble. (I do agree with @deltaandthebannermen that there’s not much point clinging to what’s established, though. I think if you want a show that sticks to the established lore you should probably be watching something else.)
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It isn’t the only sticking point, I just didn’t bother repeating points that others had already made that I also agree with. And yes I do subscribe to the “if it ain’t broke then leave it alone” school of thought as opposed to the “how far can I meddle without breaking it” school of thought.
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Realised it was a spelling mistake. Corrected it to elegant. 
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Yeah exactly!! Like, they were abandoned and then taken and experimented on by Tecteun, then constantly mind-wiped, completely forgetting their previous identity. It totally fits in with the Gallifreyans/Time Lords exploiting/colonising other species and the entire concept of Time to become so powerful, but brushing that all under the rug to paint themselves as benevolent guardians etc.
Anyway, here are some of my favourite tumblr posts about the concept who word it a lot better than I can:
White Entitlement and Doctor Who: AKA Why I Like The Timeless Child
Placement of the Fugitive Doctor
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Personally I think The Timeless Child was a bit of a misstep.
I love that the Doctor is an orphan and doesn’t know where they come from - that adds extra mystery and the extra regenerations adds an infinite number of new stories to tell. And yes, many more incarnations including female ones. It’s a bit like the Unbound Doctor from Big Finish.
The stuff I didn’t like was The Doctor being The Chosen One and the source for all regenerations. I could have done without that.
Also the way it was told - with the Doctor frozen in place while The Master explained everything to her. The Master destroying Gallifrey again after we only just got it back. Meh.
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I think the “White Entitlement and Doctor Who” post makes some points that really sum up my feelings about the “chosen one” thing–particularly:
Here I was, feeling connected to this character as a person of color for the first time in its entire 50 year run and other people were treating this as universally and inherently bad. They were calling the Doctor’s history of abuse and memory loss, things that happen to children in real life, “special”.
and
In no way am I saying everyone must enjoy or love this plot twist. Afterall, it’s a big change. But to me, it screams White Entitlement to throw a blanket over the whole thing and say nobody could have enjoyed it. Nobody could find this new plot relatable simply because they couldn’t. What they fail to realize is that not everybody will relate to every story and sometimes that’s the whole point.
I could elaborate further but I think I would just be rehashing things I’ve already said… I will note that I myself am white and so not relating to it on the same level as OP of this post, but these passages are basically why seeing it as a “chosen one” narrative baffles me.
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oohhh ok there are some really interesting points going on in this post… i REALLY like them bringing up Henrietta Lacks, thats such a good comparison i would be shocked if it wasn’t intentional from the writers.
i do disagree with the implication that the abuse and violence would in and of itself make a story like this not be a ‘chosen one’ narrative, its pretty common for the ‘chosen one’ to be singled out and attacked for what makes them unique/be under a curse or something similar as part of being Chosen/have their uniqueness be due to being the last of an in-universe minority group. in ATLA you have Aang who is the last survivor of a genocide, for one.
im also going to add to this conversation (since we’re taking the definition of “chosen one” as a singular and unique dude who is the protagonist and does All The Cool Stuff) the Doctor is already pretty much a Chosen One several times over. if we werent already considering them one just for being a uniquely good time lord whos always saving everybody, then the Last Of The Time Lords thing definitely makes them one. let that affect your feelings on this particular plot point as it will lol
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There is one thing I have seen people mention a little in this thread but not seen much discussion about and would love to hear thoughts.
How would people feel if the reveal were that The Master were The Timeless Child not The Doctor?
I remember it being discussed as something a lot of people would prefer when it happened, and some people still wanting them to retcon that to be true. Personally I think I’d’ve prefered it to be the case, but I don’t think it’s something they should retcon now they’ve done it.
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I would have liked it to be the case largely because one of the big characteristics of the Master is that he just doesn’t die, and keeps coming back, even with no regenerations left, so it would’ve made sense.
And, admittedly, the episode was “Timeless Children”, so I was kind of expecting more than one. I thought it’d be both the Doctor and the Master.
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i think its very fun to think about…having the doctor find out that the master is basically, like, the child in The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas whos suffering has been keeping all their people strong and powerful this whole time, having a big turn in their dynamic over 13s series where they go from being 90% antagonistic to her feeling terrible and wanting to help him while knowing shes been benefitting from the suffering this whole time…could get dangerously close to being a rehash of the thing with the drums in The End of Time i guess, but I wasn’t that satisfied with how they executed that anyways
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