Not quite sure if this fits but this question keeps popping up every now and again. I’m curious about what the line “Well, you can’t have the United Kingdom. There’s already people living there. They’ll think you’re going to pinch their benefits.” means in the Zygon Invasion. Is it referring to what was going on at the time irl?
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If I had to throw a guess, I’d say that is a reference to all those people claiming that immigrants from poorer countries come to richer countries and live on benefits rather than getting employed and contributing to society - a crude simplification usually used by conservatist and right-wing political movements as a way to justify stances against immigration. It’s a very common sentiment here in Finland too.
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Yep, @MrColdStream got it right. It’s social commentary about how inhospitable we are to immigrants.
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I mean, if going there and living off benefits was an option, I’d be interested.
It normally isn’t actually something you can really do, though, just something right-wing people get upset about.
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Yeah, no matter how much they cut the benefits system, until you literally cannot afford to eat on it, people will still say:
“Those people on benefits all have flat screen TVs and iPhones! It’s not fair!”
(Like anyone owns a CRT anymore?)
(And like you can get a job if you don’t own an internet-capable device, which is probably third or fourth-hand anyway)
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I thought it was something to do with politics but that’s…something.
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In fact, one thing that happens in the US is that they cut off benefits if you make more than a certain amount… but you can’t actually live off that amount.
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Oh, trust me, you can totally live on the Finnish benefit system. Granted, not a very luxurious life, but we have loads and loads of people (including loads of native Finns) who have lived on nothing but unemployment benefit, housing benefit and basic social assistance (our last resort benefit) for years on end. We have such an intricate benefit system that it isn’t actually incentivising people to find work, and that’s why there are talks about reforming it. But that isn’t a problem any way related to immigrants, many of whom aren’t even entitled to said benefits until they’ve lived here for long enough.
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That’s crazy, and we have that as well.
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Can anyone explain to me exactly why some people have problems with the Thirteenth Doctor’s era?
I’ve seen loads of people complaining about this era (some saying extremely horrible things, about the era, and the fans of this era), but I’ve struggled to actually find someone who has a valid reason for not liking it.
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In my memory, it wasn’t terrible but it felt kinda mediocre. I remember enjoying it in the moment, but nothing stood out as a favorite. I remember Graham being fun, but Ryan and Yaz being rather boring and fading into the background. I also remember feeling like some of the scripts needed another draft or two. I don’t mind Jodie’s portrayal, but it’s not among my favorites.
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I don’t like to be negative, but if you want to know, here are my two biggest problems with that era.
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I think that most of the companions are kind of boring and don’t get much time in the spotlight. I think that having three companions join at the same time was a mistake. Ryan, especially, is, according to me, an uninteresting character, but even Yas is kind of uninteresting.
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Too many stories of that era are not that good, according to me. Especially in seasons 11 and 13. I think that my big problem with them again comes down to the characters, where a lot of villains are just boring to me.
I actually paused my Who watching during this era for a while because it was not for me. I was sad about it because I was so excited when Jodie was announced. There are some highlights but to me it is the weakest era of the modern show.
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The people who are being horrible, by and large, are doing it for the sake of being nasty. For myself, I found I didn’t really connect with the Chibnall era - not because I hated Whittaker or the lore stuff and whatever, but it just was a little unengaging to me. I didn’t really like some of the episodes, which is true of any era, but I found that even the better episodes didn’t have a large impact on me.
I think Chibnall dared to break the status quo which made a lot of people very angry. Even if I find most of his episodes a little bland, I can respect that. I wish I could see what it is that makes people love 13 to the point of obsession, because seeing that love makes me feel like I’m watching another show entirely. I think it just isn’t for me
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I also want to add in hivemind mentality.
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Misogyny plays a big part too.
Myself personally, i just didn’t vibe with a lot of the scripts and found some of the characters really underwritten. I am looking forward to the Big Finish series though
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Me too. I hope that 13 and Yas will work better for me with other writers.
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Agreed. I didn’t take to the era at first, I did enjoy Flux though. Last year myself and a friend decided to rewatch the era to see if we could love it as we do every other era, and we went in with an open mind and ended up falling in love with it for a variety of reasons.
I do think that one of the failings of the promotional tour surrounding S11 was the fact that Chibnall, in my opinion, could’ve helped brace the audience for the shift to a more Classic Who approach. In terms of like, just addressing the change in interviews and such.
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I think others have summarised some of the main reasons here - as someone who didn’t always appreciate Thirteen’s era while it was ongoing, my main issue was that it didn’t feel like there was much depth to some of the stories. You can read lots of really interesting interpretations of Thirteen, her companions and her stories, but from my perspective a lot of the things that were hinted at were never really examined closely in the show - even Thasmin is only really addressed in one or two episodes at the end of the era. Coming off of the Moffat era, which had a tendency to examine the Doctor and their companions very deeply, it was a bit frustrating.
For me, it was a big shame, as I really like the concept of Thirteen’s era - a “back to basics” reset focusing on the Doctor as an adventurer, finally free of the Time War and associated baggage and having some more classic-style adventures, was really exciting to me, and it annoyed me that this was essentially thrown out the window with the series 12 arc.
All that being said - my opinion on the era has changed quite a bit since it finished, and I really like quite a few of the stories. I also love Thirteen herself and her companions, and I like the fact the era does feel genuinely different from series 1-10. I’m very much looking forward to seeing what Big Finish will do with it - I think there’s a lot of exciting character and plot avenues to explore, and Jodie and Mandip are a great duo 
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The people saying extremely horrible things are usually the misogynistic people who would have hated it no matter what, because the Doctor is a female.
Some people like myself and @Tian have other reasons for generally not liking the era, and unfortunately they often get called misogynistic simply for not liking it, as they are lumped in with the ones above.
It’s a shame because I really love Whittaker, can’t wait for the audios, I just found 90% of the TV episodes to not be enjoyable for me personally.
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I’ve thought about this quite a bit, and I think Thirteen’s era makes the most sense if you consider her as a kind of alternate Eighth Doctor, straight after McCoy. As you say above, the tone is tipped far more towards classic than series 1 - 10 (at least to start with), and the central plot beats of the era (destroying Gallifrey, the timeless child, the division) make far more sense if you remove series 1 - 10 from the equation. Even Thirteen’s outfit is more in the style of the 80s Doctors than Eccleston through Capaldi.
To me, it almost seems as if Chibnall had all the ideas for his era during classic and the wilderness years, and when he became showrunner he just put them on screen without considering what came in between. I don’t mind it too much - he had the right to run the show whatever way he saw fit - but I can imagine how it was jarring for people who hadn’t seen classic.
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