Happy Pride Month

Damn right! And gotta have Flea representation. They were an important character in my youth.

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That’s fine, everyone is welcome, as long as you are an ally!

You can’t help the way you were born :joy: /joke

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Seeing as 99% of folks think I’m gay when they first meet me (it’s been said I’m a bit camp) then I hopefully when the gays finally take over, I’ll be able to pass :wink: .

Ally through and through.

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I want to add on the third set of Rose Tyler Dimension Cannon Audios – I checked the site and we already have the others, but the whole third set (Trapped) features a main character who’s nonbinary. I really love Danni and how they’re portrayed, and their dynamic with Rose is so great.

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News to me, I need to check that out!

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It’s not Doctor Who, but we’ve just finished watching the first season of the Quantum Leap reboot and I was really impressed by how the non-binariness of Ian was handled. They are just Ian - no comment is ever made about them being non-binary, all the characters use their pronouns, let them dress how they want, acknowledge how brilliant they are at their job and it’s just completely natural and normalised. A real lesson to other shows on how to do it, I think (but willing to be corrected!)

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Since I don’t think I’ve seen anyone else mention her yet, let me also give some love to my favorite companion

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Yes, to have queer characters just be who they are and not have their differences be the centre of the story is the ultimate goal I think, then it will all be accepted as normal.

There is also a character in Star Trek Discovery, Adira, who is non-binary. There is a short discussion about it when they decide that they want they/them pronouns, everyone just nods their head and says yes that’s fine (it’s in the far future after all) and then it’s not really mentioned again, aside from their relationship with a trans character. It’s just so normal, even my brother-in-law, who doesn’t really get this stuff, just understood it!

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Clara and River are both canonically queer, although we don’t actually see much of it on screen, just some little quips. That’s very Moffat.

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Star Trek Prodigy also has Zero, who is non-binary, in the main cast. Star Trek: Lower Decks has Mariner being bi and dating Jennifer at one point in the show. And Star Trek: Strange New Worlds had Captain Angel, a trans non-binary character played by a trans non-binary actor, though they were a one episode character.

She-Ra: Princesses of Power had at least, what, 3 gay couples?

Owl House has, lets see, a bi main character who gets in a relationship with a lesbian (and, well, you do see a lot of that on-screen), an important secondary character who is non-binary and was in a relationship with a main character, a side non-binary character, and probably others I’m not thinking of. (Of course, it’s also the show that on the third season had Luz come out to her mom as bi in the opening, and her mom wears a rainbow heart for the rest of the show, and notably has books showing she’s been reading up on the subject…)

Edit: She-Ra also has Double Trouble, a very camp non-binary villain. Raine’s better rep, though.

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Not raining on anyone’s parade here, but when was Clara conically queer?
Is it just the quips about Jane Austen or am I not remembering something explicit?

Edit: Canonically queer. How would one be conically queer?:thinking:

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There are little bits about her kissing or being attracted to various women, though when it comes to actually dating someone, we mostly see her with Danny Pink, IIRC…

One of these “this character is bi, but is going to act straight most of the time” things, I think.

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Yes, same with River Song who says she has had relationships with women but we never see it on screen. It’s a Moffat thing. Thankfully he improved a lot when he introduced Bill Potts!

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It’s also kinda a “easily cut” thing. It’s not that uncommon to make all the queer content be not on screen or in brief sections so you can cut it and change the dialogue when subtitling or dubbing, and sell to anti-LGBTQIA markets.

Like how in season one of Loki, we had a brief moment of Loki being bisexual, but it was maybe a minute and easily cuttable.

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@shauny @SweetAIBelle

What you are saying makes perfect sense and as I said I am not looking to rain on parades here.
I guess I just don’t quite see it? A bit like the other day when someone told me the 10th Doctor is queer for making a quip about Andrew Garfield kissing him. Honest to Kroll this is a way I communicate with several of my straight male friends, one of my best friends and I have been quipping at each other for more than 20 years about how we should elope. Heck I’ve been here less than four months and @deltaandthebannermen and I have sort of a running joke about being fandom married :wink:

Clara could easily be bi-sexual, it is certainly suggested several times, but like Ace I don’t quite think there is enough to unequivocally call it “canonical”. It’s more a personal interpretation I would say.:slightly_smiling_face:

Just questioning stuff here and not looking to subtract from anyone, anywhere.
Incidentally a merry Pride to anyone at home!
who98

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I totally understand the banter you talk about. And I don’t think the 10th Doctor is queer (the 14th however…!)

When I say “canonically queer” I mean exactly that - not speculation or vibes or fanfic but actually that it is written in the text of the show that they have had some sort of queer relationship or feelings.

Ace doesn’t really pass this test. I 100% agree the writers knew what they were doing and that she is queer-coded, and it’s completely valid for people to use her as a lesbian icon, but in the text of the TV show, because of the time etc, no she isn’t canonically queer.

Clara however?

CLARA: Fine, then. Right. Now, where was I? Jane Austen. Amazing writer, brilliant comic observer, and strictly among ourselves, a phenomenal kisser.

Unless this is a joke (and I don’t see why she would joke about snogging Jane Austin to her class), she travelled back in time with the Doctor and ended up kissing a woman and really liked it. That’s pretty bisexual behaviour to me :grin:

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I would like to point out that there are many bisexual people in real life who have never had a relationship with the same sex, but just being in a “straight-passing” relationship doesn’t make them any less bisexual. Saying Clara isn’t bi because we never see her with a woman on screen can hurt a lot of people who relate to her or who have been in that situation themselves.

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That it is, and I could totally see that happening, maybe she even brought back an iPod and listened to some Katy Perry with Jane Austen :wink:

I guess I have just always put it down as jokey banter. But then again people’s sexual identity has never been of particular interest to me, neither has romance in Doctor Who for that matter. It’s the stories and interesting characters that is the main focus for me. If people are happy and not being malicious then the opinions of everybody else means sod all.
I am not sure I am communicating my thoughts properly and will just stop before I dig myself into a hole here :wink:

But I will end with this remark though: I love series 8 & 9 Clara! :slightly_smiling_face:

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If that is the way you read what I wrote I am definitely communicating my thoughts in the wrong way :wink:

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