"Give me the loving!"

That’s exactly the part I thought about - the little reveal that TARDISes aren’t meant to be flown by a single person, or at least the Type 40 isn’t, elides on both the Doctor’s momentous loneliness, his tremendous ability, but also highlights the beauty of that found family he has. It’s so, SO good, I remember crying a lot.

Also Julian Bleach burns the house down as Davros.

4 Likes

…and then the Meta-Crisis Doctor burns Davros’ house down :joy:

4 Likes

Love that this has just turned into every dr who fan’s favourite hobby - complaining about the show :rofl:

4 Likes

Yeah sorry about that everyone :grimacing:

I need a pick-me-up… I think I’ll go watch The Five(Ish) Doctors :blush:

6 Likes

now THAT is a brilliant episode!

4 Likes

I am fairly certain that that isn’t a controversial take :+1::grin:

4 Likes

I’ve gotta be honest a lot of the dislike for 14 in this thread seems motivated by things that just aren’t happening? 14 was given a clear ending and there’s no indication that he’s going to keep popping up or get a spinoff. Of course it’s possible, but it’s always been possible for any past doctor to show up in some way if they wanted to bring them back

5 Likes

If there had been a solid narrative reasoning behind regenerating into David Tennant’s Doctor again I would agree with you wholeheartedly.
I just don’t see that that wasn’t a story that couldn’t have been told with any other Doctor, or a new one for that matter.

And I wouldn’t really call it a clear ending, he’s staying in the present where stories very often are set, he’s interacting with characters we know will return and he’s got his own TARDIS that he scoots around in having adventures.

I’m not saying the specials weren’t enjoyable or that David Tennant didn’t do an amazing job acting in them. (Seriously when he realises it is Mel standing next to him, that was incredible)
The way that story is left so open-ended just gives the very clear behind the scenes indication that they want to keep a back-up crutch in case the new direction of the show isn’t profitable, it feels a bit disingenuous towards Ncuti Gatwa if I’m honest.

I am not just having a go at RTD and David Tennant because I don’t enjoy season 2 and his 2009 specials :slightly_smiling_face:

5 Likes

I think the origin of David Tennant specifically returning was that RTD, Catherine Tate, and David Tennant were all participating in a Doctor Who Tweetalong, they were enjoying it, and Catherine said she’d love to do some more “Doctor and Donna” sometime, and Tennant agreed, so they were both basically part of the idea from the beginning…

5 Likes

I think retiring and settling down is a pretty firm narrative ending for the character and his arc. Yes, he still presumably has little adventures of some sort, but there’s just no indication of any existing intention to bring him back and certainly not that he’s somehow a back-up plan for Ncuti.

If there had been a solid narrative reasoning behind regenerating into David Tennant’s Doctor again I would agree with you wholeheartedly.
I just don’t see that that wasn’t a story that couldn’t have been told with any other Doctor, or a new one for that matter.

Whether you like 10’s face returning is a different matter. I think it served the healing story really well to revisit a returning face and companion, but I can understand why it’s not a choice everyone loved. I just think it’s disingenuous for people to hold feelings of “he’s going to overshadow the future of the show” against him when he’s really only doing that in your imagination.

4 Likes

That is a very valid point :blush: I will reserve further opinions on this storyline for if and when it returns.
I recognise that I prefer more clearcut storytelling, and this is a bit too open-ended for my liking.

3 Likes

Yeah, RTD doesn’t have a great track record with antisemitism, and that joke does not come across well when there were clearly no Jews involved in making it.

I can’t say I’m entirely happy about the return of the Christmas specials, which feel much less inclusive (especially when this new one involves goblins (often a Jewish caricature) stealing a Christian baby born on Christmas even to make “baby butter for our baby bread” (blood libel). Not a good look). But I’ve gotten into enough arguments with people on the internet who thing everyone in the universe celebrates Christmas, so I’ll leave it at that.

1 Like

I’d say the exact design of the goblins does seem to take into account the antisemitic origins of many goblins though with them going out of their way to give them tiny noses.

True, but the fact they went through the trouble to change that only makes the blood libel storyline all the more glaring.

I’ve never known about Goblins being used as a specifically Jewish caricature, and not being particularly religious myself I don’t know what blood libel actually means.

The idea of racial purity, segregation and the very idea of an Ubermensch just makes me more angry than a Rutan upon seeing a Sontaran.

If it gives you any idea, this song was originally a antisemitic blood libel song. Steeleye Span went through and removed the references in the lyrics to salvage the song, but the murderer was originally Jewish.

Here’s the Wikipedia article on blood libel:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel

Basically, the idea of Jews using Christian blood (especially that of Christian children) to bake bread has a very long history.

I could not make out the lyrics on that song, vocals too low and instruments too high :wink:

Did a search instead to educate myself a bit.

Wasn’t that also a part of the persecution of people accused of witchcraft in Medieval Europe?

I live in a part of Jutland in Denmark that does not have a great degree of religious diversity nor much multicultural diversity, and religious education as part of primary school was basically only Protestant Christianity - with a bit of Norse Mythology (Vikings and all that). So please pardon any ignorance on my part in these matters :slightly_smiling_face:

Admittedly, it’s a song I’ve heard a fair few times and read the lyrics at at least one point to, so they are probably clearer to me. I’ve got a few of their albums, and they also did an album titled “Wintersmith”, all themed to the Terry Pratchett novel of the same name. (And Terry Pratchett’s voice is on the album…)

1 Like