It’s, um… highly not appropriate for a PG forum 
what can I say, Leela was a creation that may have been ‘for the dads’ (ugh), but she also did great things for lesbians everywhere 
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Say no more 
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listened to Ambition’s Debt again today and I stand by it as being one of the greatest Gallifrey episodes. Veklin’s crisis of faith, Leela’s desperation to keep doing good, Cresta and the General being sooo cute, Ollistra’s meddling… yeah it’s all so good. I cannot wait for WR3, I hooe we get some news about it soon
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@Schroedingerswhat maybe let’s go to the more appropriate place
But with respect, I totally disagree with you about Narvin’s character arc!! He starts as a complete cog in the system, valuing his position and his patriotism above all else, but then when the civil war happens, he realises he actually has to start choosing what his morals are. And because he’s spent time with Romana, who in his eyes stands for everything good about Gallifrey; and with Leela, who has opened his eyes to the fact that he is pretty damn xenophobic, he grows into someone with a backbone.
It’s a slow progression, and you only really notice it beginning in Imperiatrix and s3, but by the time you get to s4 and Leela’s calling him a coward, you’re like wait? that’s not true though. He’s so interesting because his morality is so entwined with Gallifrey, but his faith in the world he thinks he knows is constantly challenged and so all the time you have him fighting his little internal battle of whether or not the actions of the people around him really exemplify the Gallifrey he wants to stand for, the one he believes in.
I could go on 
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Okay, that is fair. I actually saw that as an integral part of his character, that he just kind of hid/was hidden behind a wall that was lowered over time, which made it to me feel like that much of a change, but if one sees it like that, it can be very much seen as a bigger change than it seemed to me. (idk if that explanation made any sense)
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No, it does! And I do agree with what you’re saying to an extent - his morality is a huge part of his character. It just gets challenged to extremes over the course of Gallifrey and forces him to face it in a way he never has before, making him choose to be a more active player and pick a side rather than be the impassive Coordinator he’s always been.
There’s that scene in s2 somewhere, I forget which episode, where he and Darkel are talking and he says something along the lines of “I’m a spy, not a politician. I’m on no-one’s side but my own”, and I feel like that’s the most important part to his character - he’s on his own side, but he’s always aligned that side with Gallifrey, and being made to confront his blind patriotism by Darkel forces him to actually express his morality more openly
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I can see and admit when I am in over my head with something.
I can admit, that I haven’t even thought too deeply about this until now, I usually go with gut feelings on those things until I listened to something three or four times (currently I am on listen number two (three for a couple of earlier audios) with the parts that I have access to.)
But you make really good points, I can think about more during my listen through.
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At the end of the day, we’re both right that he becomes incredibly loveable and everyone gets slightly obsessed with him! As you can see, I have thought way too hard about this and listened to this series way, way too many times
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I mean I know the feeling. I do that a lot too. But for me it takes a couple of rounds of listening before I can even think about analyzing a character, because I then can take in general details (and foreshadowing) that I missed the first times before I go in on different characters and plot points. (I mean I could probably write essays on some random minor characters of the Percy Jackson series, etc.)
But yeah. He does become really lovable at a point. (And I really need to get the next audios of Gallifrey to listen to soon.)
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Oh for sure, I only can think about this so deeply because I have listened to the whole series countless times on loop. And I for one absolutely love spotting new thigns with every listen, and finding new ways to analyse the stories. Writing essays about Big Finish brings me a lot of joy 
Where are you up to in Gallifrey?
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The next one I haven’t gotten and thus haven’t listened to yet would be Series 4.
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Oh you are in for a treat with that! I love s4 a lot, there’s a whole bunch of excellent Narvin content to come
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I remember being surprised by Narvin because he came off as basically a villain to me at first, and I knew him by reputation as the beloved fan favorite breakout character, so it was cool to see how he developed into his protagonist status — although I’ll always be a little sad he kinda took Brax’s place in the protagonist team lol, I love Brax
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It’s me, I’m lesbians everywhere.
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I finally managed to start War Room. (When I say start I mean I began yesterday and just finished Collaborators)
It probably took me so long because I had to get over Romana leaving at the end of Time War. (Not that I have actually gotten over it.)
And I freaking love it! I definitely enjoyed them more the Time War.
Like Louise Jameson said Romana hasn’t really left the story. She is in everything Leela does and I think that is just beautiful. It just makes me want her return even more. Like you can’t let Leela got through all of this without having them reunite. And with them I mean all three of them. Leela, Romana and Narvin.
Talking about Narvin. I am glad he is back. I do like the new cast, especially Ollistra and Veklin are bonkers, but it was nice to have Leela interact with someone she actually trusts. And it’s Narvin! I am always happy to have him around.
I am quite glad the Daleks have only appeared in one story so far. Still wish they weren’t the main enemy of the time war. I just think it doesn’t really make sense for anyone to ally with them. That I found actually quite impressive about Collaborators. That they managed to give someone a good reason to do that. (If they are who the prince meant) But overall I think mostly anyone else would be against them, even if the aren’t on the Time Lords site.
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Fresh off the rumour mill!! Jason Haigh-Ellery said that Gallifrey’s delay is due to ‘scheduling issues with overseas cast members’ and THEN he said that Lalla Ward had not stopped working with BF AND refused to say with certainty that she/Romana were not coming back ever…
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Wonder if that’s also an indication of another Tom/Lalla series of FDAs in the pipeline?
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I have listened to three episodes of Gallifrey: Time War 2.
It’s good 
It’s really good actually!
Terrance Hardiman is my new favourite Rassilon! (replacing Donald Sumpter, but then again I haven’t heard all about them yet 
) A really great performance. I am starting to see the whole “Who can tell the difference anymore?” from Cass in the Night of the Doctor when they talk of the Daleks and Time Lords.
It’s a totally new political battlefield on Gallifrey that Romana and Narvin have to navigate, and I am here for that
I love Gallifrey 
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TW2 is definitely the best TW boxset, I listened to it the other day as well actually! Eris and Narvin are so funny. Eris is easily one of the best side characters they’ve invented in ages for the series.
I love Gallifrey too!!
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Just finished Time War 2. What an excellent season 
Terrance Hardiman as Rassilon forever! Oh wait… I guess not
I feel like Gallifrey went a bit wobbly after season 6 with Intervention Earth and Enemy Lines, but they have really found a footing again with these first two Time War seasons. Can’t wait to begin the next season with Romana and Narvin in a rickety TARDI-BOX on a quest to find Leela
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