I’ll be brief because I’m on my phone and prone to a panoply of typos. However, to me that’s absolutely NOT what the season spent its time doing. It allowed people to think that, sure, but it didn’t compel that reading because i was still questioning whether Ruby’s mother would be anything special or not all the way up to this week. Moreover, because of Russell’s prior propensities, I felt a normal origin was entirely possible.
I mean, I know I’m unlikely to change people’s minds, but I’m happy to state my own position. Because, see, I did (and do) love the episode. Perhaps it’ll be one of those unpopular episodes I’m defending for years to come? So be it. Perhaps opinions will change? Either way, I loved it.
Well on Tenzalore he was sat on top surveying the majesty of the surrounding destruction, then he noticed the younger TARDIS show up and merged with his younger self.
In flatline he was still big but just tiptoed on top of the TARDIS. He was impressed with the poster trick.
Wow man I can’t believe he then said “I am The Doctor” then snapped his fingers using the Thanos glove and undusted everyone back from death. Oh, sorry. Wrong franchise.
I agree, yeah, the reveal of Ruby’s mom was not the best in the way it was set up, but in the vacuüm of the episode itself I do really like it. Just really love myself a good ol’ ordinary people are the most important people. Paul Cornell did it really well in Father- sorry, wrong episode. Ending was wholesome and emotional me likey ok.
That Rose Tyler you changed me moment was- sorry, I mean Ruby Sunday. An RTD moment that was mhm.
Yeahhh idk why I liked it aside from when Ruby finally got to meet her biological mother. Story wise it is pretty much just “this guy is a real baddy impossible to defeat” unexplainable science fiction stuff happens “nvm we defeated that bozo”.
I guess i liked the vibes? The bleak empty worlds. That people dying meant time dying meant memory dying? That was a pretty cool concept.
Maybe I would’ve liked if we saw more of the consequences of Sutekh’s fairy dust. The apocalyptic remains of the universe. Now everyone just kinda turned into sand for a few minutes and you knew it wasn’t going to last anyways, so the everybody lives felt like “ah there it is” more than anything. It didn’t feel properly climactic.
But I did like it. I thought it was a very fun ride. So in the end still a positive score from me.
Wow, this thread has almost been as wild a ride as the episode itself. Lots I agree with and a few comments I definitely disagree with.
I’ll need to come back- as always - with proper thoughts but overall there was lots to enjoy but some definitely fudges, hand waves and I’ll explain laters which will frustrate some.
Loved the shot of Lenny Rush firing from his segway with the fury in his face only a 13 year old with a weapon can make.
The thing I think I’m missing, weirdly, is technobabble. Because across basically every Doctor’s run, the mystery/ending/big evil baddie has been occasionally solved with a bit of technobabble to get us out of a painted corner. And because it’s David Tennant delivering it, and because it’s skillfully written technobabble, it manages to pull it off.
Instead of technobabble, we now have the barest shrugging attempts at justifying what’s happening within the physics of the Doctor Who universe, and far more paltry and cheap “power of love/imagination/belief” explanations, which work when deployed effectively and sparingly, but when it’s the default, starts to ring like lazy writing.
Look, am I expecting too much from what is fundamentally a children’s television show? On Disney? Yeah, probably, so I’m not going to denigrate anybody who this worked for. But like it or not, Doctor Who is a show that has multiple, perhaps dozens of layers that it operates on, and like it or not, we have in the past half decade lost a good chunk of those layers in favor of other things. Does the show even stand up to deep textual analysis any more? Half the character things I write and think about are almost pulled wholesale from my grubby hands pulling together loose dialog strands and visual homages and making this Doctor have continuity with all the other Doctors. Yes, keeping continuity is risible, but if you want to call me risible for that then go ahead and call David Whitaker risible too. Ruby’s mum being nobody doesn’t work for me mostly because it felt like A plan, never The Plan.
I really enjoyed watching this episode. Feel like I’m repeating myself a bit by saying that every episode but I genuinely did enjoy watching all the episodes.
I loved the melancholy first part, really sitting with the characters in their grief and the memory TARDIS too! I’ve said before that I love the moments focusing on the characters and this was amazing in that way. Their interactions were just absolutely beautiful. The part with the woman on that planet too, though for a moment I thought she might be Susan. Something about the quietness of it all really touched me.
Defeating Suresh was a bit cheesy, but it had me grinning madly at my screen so I can’t say anything against it, I just thought it was funny and cool.
I liked Ruby’s parents being normal. I feel like no reveal could have ever been enough for the strongly speculating fans and this hit the emotional core. It felt very peaceful and very fitting to the character to me. (Though I wouldn’t have minded Ruby being special either, I like it when my companions are a bit not-ordinary and the whole fixed point and the snow still seems a bit odd.)
Only reason I’m a bit torn on the ending is that I think this would be a very good ending for the character of Ruby Sunday while knowing she’ll be back and genuinely wanting to see more of her. I’m worried she might get a worse ending.
I found the Mrs Flood scenes very interesting and do have to rewatch the episode since my subtitles weren’t working yesterday and I didn’t catch everything she said, and the ending made me think we’re getting the TV show theory after all for a moment. Very intrigued.
All in all, really liked this episode in spite of some weak points, Ncuti Gatwa is amazing and I absolutely adore Ruby.
I just really don’t understand the point of building the mystery regarding who Ruby’s Mum is if she’s just a random woman we’ve never met. Reveals like that only work if it’s someone we already know.
It doesn’t explain how Ruby can make it snow either.
I wanna hop onto your comment about the way they sat in the grief and melancholy of the opening and say that I also did enjoy that the episode allowed some moments of quiet contemplation. The scene with the dying woman in the tent is another great example, where we really got a chance to feel the weight of what was going on.
It’s ripped right out of the Avengers playbook, but that doesn’t come as much of a surprise. I enjoy a more thoughtful, slower pace to the show, so when they actually take their foot off the Hollywood Pedal and let that happen, especially with the wondrous Bonnie Langford (who gives a great performance throughout; I had a bit of a horror show moment where I thought they might genuinely kill off Mel, which was far more effective than dusting the entire planet in the first five minutes) and the history she lends to the story. This would have been a far poorer pair of episodes without her presence.
Having just watched it, feeling a bit meh, honestly, but I don’t know where this one will ultimately wind up.
Trouble is that it was pretty obvious early on to me that it was going to be a big reset, and rather then hyping me up on the stakes, that just makes me feel like there are no consequences to anything happening.
I’m also not a big fan of putting a leash on a dog and then dragging him outside a moving vehicle at high speeds.
Loved Mel, but I also felt rather a lack of closure with her. The Doctor didn’t say a word to her when he came back to UNIT. I wish she’s popped out of one of the doors of the TARDIS before the Doctor took off at the end.
Also, kinda felt like the Doctor decided “okay, you’re ordinary now, Ruby, time to find another companion”?
Well, see her again, of course, because she lives right by Ms. Flood, who I’m still intrigued by.
(It actually rather felt like RTD rewrote it to have Ruby’s parents not be important late on, too. Even Ruby was acting like the name she saw was a bigger deal then it actually was…)
The thing that makes Ruby’s birth mom being a normal person work so well for me is that I never really cared about that arc because I was anticipating some big reveal about it, I cared about it because Ruby cared about it. It’s the very first thing we learn about her, and it forms a major connection between her and the Doctor. And similarly, while the Doctor is intrigued by the mystery around it, it’s not an Impossible Girl situation where the mystery is the reason for inviting her to come with him and is motivating him through the season, but instead it’s something they bond over and something he cares about because it matters to her. Like they say in the episode, she’s important because Ruby thinks she’s important. And in a character sense, I just don’t think that Ruby discovering that her birth mother is somehow special or connected to the Doctor could possibly be as impactful as her learning that her birth mother loved her and was doing what she thought was best to keep her safe and can now be a part of her family.
The experience of watching this one was fun. I liked the contemplative and melancholy moments, especially on that planet with the “kind woman”. Tying back to 2046 with the dangerous prime minister was interesting, finding out in this timeline he did the forced DNA tests. I liked the defeat of Sutekh, it was fun and exciting!
I do agree the Ruby’s mother mystery fell flat. I like the fact she was ordinary, and ADORDED the scene where she reunited with her mother. It was so well done. But the actual mystery, with not being able to see her on VHS, didn’t make much sense to me. Also, yes, killing basically everyone in the beginning did undercut some tension because you know they’re gonna be back by the end. I think that may have worked better if it was saved as the cliffhanger to Part 1.
It’s a solid 8/10 for me. I was thinking last night that it actually falls right about in the middle of season finales from Doctor Who for me.
I need to think about this quite hard and watch a few more times because a very wild “Sutekh as metaphor for the fandom” theory dropped into my head and started to make me like this a fair bit more in theory.
At the same time, I really like this particular message. Making it even more frustrating seeing the implementation stumbled, at least from my point of view.
Still curious (question for people with more profound knowledge about Classic Who than I have): Was the ‘ordinary people matter most’ theme something that was introduced with Father’s Day, or was it already there in Classic Who?
Glad you got so much from the episode. Me too! I can see some of the points that others raise. It’s just that either;
a) I think there are valid explanations and/or signposts for some, or
b) the potential issue is overshadowed by something else the episode did better
Yes, loved that part (and the brief coda at the end). Not only was it beautifully performed but nicely written too. That fog of forgetting, that haziness… something so disturbing about it when applied to one’s own child. And yet, it happens to people every day. That scene encapsulated the loss of hope and the last gasps of the universe. It was poignant, but also full of hope as represented by the Doctor. The quiteness, the stillness of it all.
In response to your question about Classic Who, it very much depends on the era and story but going right back to the beginning, i would say yes. Ian and Barbara were often hugely significant, driving forces in the stories. They were also very normal and ordinary.
From the Pertwee era, Jo Grant was nothing special (loved Katy Manning’s innocent performance so much) yet the Doctor was pretty much powerless in The Daemons and it is the willing act of self sacrifice of this ordinary young woman that defeats Azal.
