Episode Discussion: Empire of Death

Just wishing everybody…

HAPPY FINALE VIEWING DAY for tomorrow!

Not too long to wait now until…

EMPIRE

OF

(Twang)
DEATH

:wink:

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Ahhh, Tegan :heart:

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We are getting close now. I am really excited about this but I am also already a bit sad that we will not get any more episodes for 6 months.

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I was just having the exact same thought :frowning:

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That’s six months to catch up on novels :books:, comics :speech_balloon: and audio :cd:. :grin:

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I agree, it does feel very heavily inspired by the late JNT era. And all of the emphasis on Gods is akin to the later Sylvester McCoy series. I wouldn’t be surprised if RTD2 returns to the idea of the Doctor being Merlin.

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So yeah. Didn’t like this one. A weak ending to a weak season. I’ll probably have more thoughts in the morning.

I think I’m done with watching current Who, I’ll keep apprised with what is happening, but I won’t be spending any effort watching the show until something major happens. Or if something tickles my fancy.

I genuinely, and truly, hope that other people enjoy this. My negative reaction to the current run is purely personal. I like when people enjoy things, even if I don’t.

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I enjoyed it. There were a few things I didn’t care for, but as a whole, I liked it. I’ll definitely need to work out more detailed thoughts, but I enjoyed it. I kind of liked that Ruby’s parents were just ordinary people. Anyway, more thoughts later.

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Huh. That was certainly an RTD finale.
Well it’s the middle of the night so this will probably be rather incoherent :wink:

So many little throwbacks to the Classic era. I want to go frame by frame with all the planets we saw on the little screen, but it was mainly Classic era stuff right?

Bonnie Langford was the best thing about this by far. I want more Mel! And Kate! Give those two a spinoff proto!

Why was Rose Noble in these two? She did nothing again.

The whole bit about how ordinary the mother was was so incredibly corny. And the bit about pointing at the sign was just the same.

Did Ruby actually leave and the publicity shots with her, Ncuti and Varada Sethu a red herring?

I want to know if Louise Miller is somehow related to my dear Lucie Bleedin’ Miller. And if the UNIT trooper named Sullivan has a grandfather called Harry.

Always love the Doctor with a spoon!

That end with Mrs Flood with her umbrella was a bit undramatic wasn’t it?

Death × Death = Life? A bit too cheesy for my taste I’m afraid.
Sutekh didn’t really do much, and Harriet Arbinger seemed a bit superfluous in this one.

Initial rating is probably at a 3/5 :star:

Here comes the long wait for a Holiday Special :tardis:

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Okay so number one THE TV MOVIE TARDIS ON MY TV IN 2024!!! I felt soooo strongly Paul McGann baited in this it’s not even funny and Ruby is SO Sam Jones coded omg

Overall, I think I liked it. I thought it was pretty dumb how Sutekh was defeated but I LOVED the memory TARDIS and Mel and Six’s coat DESTROYED ME I was howling at the TV. I loved the Pyramids snippets and did I already mention the TV Movie… we are so back babes we’re getting an 8 spinoff I’m manifesting it now

Ummmm what else… It felt a bit like it ended. Then it ended. Then it ended. Then it ended. It was a bit weirdly choppy. I do like that Ruby’s mum’s just normal though. I thought that was fitting but we have been so Susan baited that if they don’t bring her back next season literally what is the point

I still adore Ncuti’s Doctor, I think he’s fab. Bonnie Langford was on FIRE I literally was going to be SO cross if she died, but I really thought that (even though her being there was a bit pointless) she was great.

It was a little saccharine at the end, but I do like how RTD isn’t letting the Timeless Child thing drop, I think that’s giving it an interesting dimension. And now we’ve found Ruby’s family, SURELY we have to get his? Gallifrey is so back right? I bring life to all worlds including Gallifrey right??

ALSO WHAT is Mrs Flood’s deal???

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if I wasn’t already losing it about Eight enough you had to go and SAY THAT!!!

But I totally agree with everything you said, it was fun but a little too sickly sweet

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To make me smile

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Reminded me a lot of the magical power of thinking about the Doctor and him becoming young again in Last of the Time Lords. :roll_eyes:

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And now that the 2nd part is out, that was certainly the most RTD finale to ever finale.

Wildly high stakes (over the top even) with a big boy villain, some tragedy, an ending that definitely doesn’t feel as satisfying as the rest of episode… and I had a blast.

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Will probably come back with more thoughts later but I really enjoyed this and was so so so so glad that Ruby’s mom was just a normal person, that’s really what I was hoping for. Not the best finale and probably doesn’t beat Bad Wolf/PotW for best RTD finale for me, but still pretty good, and I think this season as a whole probably lands pretty solidly in the middle somewhere for me among other revival seasons.

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[spoiler]There was a lot I loved about this episode and unfortunately, a lot I hated. Just to get a quick wrap up of my thoughts I thought everything from the beginning up until Sutekhs defeat was pretty good. Mel got some great screentime and I liked the Memory Tardis aspect. Sutekh himself was slightly underwhelming due to the reason why PoM worked so well. In PoM, Sutekhs full power is never shown which I personally think adds a lot to the story. The suspence is what made PoM such a great story to me. In this story, Sutekh is just too busted. This is probably a hot take considering he is the “God of Death” but, its just not engaging seeing every character die at the same time. Sutekhs defeat was just, boring. It was wrapped up so fast and was one of the biggest deus ex machinas I have ever seen in Who.

Moving away from Sutekh, like I said before, the characters were great here up until the end. Mel and Ruby were both great at comforting the Doctor and the Doctor was similarly great. Ncuti’s acting is amazing here.

Where the episode really falls flat for me however, is the last 15 minutes. The revelation that the biggest mystery of this era and one of the most compelling plotlines was just some random person was, at least to me, infuriating. Why go through 8 episodes of build up and constant intrigue about Rubys mum to have the plot wrap up with something this flat? And don’t even get me started on Ruby’s “I love you”. Throughout this whole season I have loved Ruby and the Doctors friendship and to see that it was all leading up to yet another RTD “companion loves the doctor” moment was horrible [/spoiler]

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Did anyone else think that Mrs. Flood’s outfit at the very looked really similar to Romana I’s from The Ribos Operation?

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That’s great, but no offence I would very much like a reasonable in-universe reason for her presence. She’s a teenager whose specialty is making stuffed toys, not really UNIT material I would say :slightly_smiling_face:
Other than people that keep telling her that she is gorgeous she doesn’t really have any interactions.

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Really enjoyed the episode, very glad that The Companion wasn’t the most special person ever, and Oh My god I’m going to be going through those memory TARDIS scenes frame by frame for the next 6 months

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I mean, it is basic math. Multiplying a negative number and another negative number makes the product positive.

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