It’s time to listen to and discuss Primeval
Buy it online using the link above, or listen for free - you’ll find links where to listen free on the story page!
Once you’ve listened, talk about it below! Even if you listened to it before and just want to discuss it - dive right in! Just please use spoiler tags where appropriate.
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Oh man, another one that I could not even begin to tell you a single thing about from memory… and honestly even reading about it on Tardis Wiki is leaving me going huh??
I think this is, then, probably one of those audios that goes in one ear and right out the other. Definitely due a relisten though, maybe it is better than my shoddy memory suggests
I really liked this one. It was just very enjoyable to me.
I was very bored by this one. I don’t remember any of it.
i think this is another decent fifth doctor audio. i will say i haven’t seen much of Nyssa’s TV presence (i only know her from some of her travels with five), so my imagination filled in more blanks than is probably typical for a listener to this one.
that said, as it stands on its own, it’s plainly good! i really felt the mystery unfolding, and i liked the atmosphere of the settings. i wonder if i’d like this one more or less if i had more context about Traken?
all told, i give it a solid 3.5/5
Yeah, this is one that I remember not liking much upon my initial listen.
I still don’t like it after relistening.
It’s not that it is bad, it’s just hopelessly forgettable and boring. The characters aren’t interesting, the performances don’t stand out. I don’t care about Traken and it’s history and I don’t care about Nyssa suffering from an unknown illness that might kill her (because I know she won’t die). Peter Davison is on autopilot, Sarah Sutton does nothing and I can’t even remember the name of the villain.
Why is it that these 5th Doctor audios are always the most boring?
I give it a 3/10, my lowest rating for a MR audio so far.
Is this not true for all 5th Doctors’ stuff?
Another boring 5th Doctor story… 2.5/5
You have a point there. 5 is one of my least favourite Doctors.
How can you forget a great name like Kwundaar!
And he’s voiced by the original Travis - Stephen Grief.
I’m kinda surprised that I liked “Primeval” so much (more than I thought I would!) 5/5, great story, solid perfomances, and Kwundaar is an… intriguing villain. Now, warning for headcannon (and spoilers):
I know this is not a very original idea, but after first season with Ncuti Gatwa I can’t help but think Kwundaar might be a… variant of Sutekh? one of the Sutekh’s incarnations? Basically, this is my headcannon now: we met at least three incarnations of Sutekh (one in “Pyramids of Mars” and “The Legend of Ruby Sunday”/“The Empire of Death”, second in “The Impossible Planet”/“The Satan Pit”, and third in this audio story). Again, this is headcannon, so I won’t be dissapointed if it gets jossed by creators. Just a fun theory from me
Yeah, that’s basically all I have to say.
*Edited to correct some mistakes
Been a few weeks since I’ve listened to this one (or any audio really, I rly need to get back on the dr who train) but yeah, agree with others that it was kind of forgettable. Did appreciate the Traken lore and as always am Incredibly Sad over Nyssa, and her seeing her destroyed home again, but so different to what she knew and also being powerless to prevent its destruction. Good god, can they please give her a break. Also I’m a sucker for stories that acknowledge how parental Five is towards her, with most of the characters he meets assuming he’s her father (not that their relationship can be solely boiled down to that, especially with Five’s emotional constipation and enormous guilt complex over the fate of Tremas).
That saying tho, Kwundaar was a nightmare to listen to, both in that I could barely understand him and his voice is a visceral sensory nightmare. Not to mention, they seemed to set up a potentially interesting storyline at the end, with Kwundaar saying he’d sent a message/awoken other powerful beings outside the universe (hmm I wonder why that sounds familiar), but did nothing with that. IDK, maybe he just threatened to do that but was stopped before he could, but that could’ve been cool to explore.
When I originally listened to this, I assumed that it was a reference/instigation to the Seventh Doctor’s war with the Elder Gods (Fenric, Gods of Ragnarok, etc) that was finally ended in Signs and Wonders (MR #191).
Quite the relatable mood!
Primeval feels like a serious missed opportunity for Nyssa. I was really excited for this one since I thought it could have explored her character or home world in a way the show simply didn’t even touch on. It felt like the fact this story takes place on Traken was incidental to the story, not informative of it.
It’s meh. It’s a slice of comfort Who. You listen to it, you enjoy a solid hour and half of Who, you put it down and forget about it.
This is something I am coming to believe more and more.
So far all of the Fifth Doctor’s stories have been boring to me. This is no exception.
It was dull and forgettable. Lots of overused tropes. I thought it might be interesting to see Traken in its early years but you never really got a sense of it. Just a bit meh.
2.5 / 5
This was a frustrating listen. It comes close to asking some really interesting questions, but in the end shys away from all of them.
I love the idea of exploring primeval Traken (I mean, look at my username) but I don’t think the setting is developed well. We don’t learn anything new about the planet, nor is Nyssa’s relationship with the world she saw destroyed delved into at all. This should be Nyssa’s story, but it really isn’t: she spends most of it either dying or trailing around in a swimming costume (which the script simply has to keep reminding us of, ew). There was such potential to explore her character and it was never taken.
The other characters are pretty bland, with the exception of Kwundaar, played wonderfully by Stephen Greif. (Blake’s 7 digression: I like Brian Croucher’s performance, but Greif is definitely my favourite Travis.) The revelation that Kwundaar is an old Trakenite god is predictable but an interesting idea.
Kwundaar is a major part of one of my problems with Primeval, though. The setup suggests we’ll be dealing with themes of good and evil, but the story itself never questions what exactly it means by ‘evil’—or, indeed, good. At the end of the day, Kwundaar is evil, not just because he’s a villain, but by the rules of the script he simply is. There are no shades of grey.
I also thought this story had great potential to explore Traken’s role as a utopia (or a pre-utopia: the death penalty is still in place, for example). How does an apparently perfect society sustain itself?
For Traken, the answer is the Source. It’s established that the Source is a machine: it provides unlimited energy, it shields its population from disease and harm. There are fascinating questions here- what are the consequences of having a world governed by a system?
Again, the story shys away from them. The Source is just a tool, the Doctor says: it could be used for good or for evil. Kwundaar would use it for evil, but the Trakenites are using it for good. It’s that black and white. That feels to me like a huge cop-out. There’s no interrogation of the fundamentals of Traken society, and of the potential costs of a utopia. That should be the bread and butter of a story like this, but it just throws it away. There are no costs.*
I also think the story is a bit dismissive of faith and religion in general, exemplified in the character of Anona, who the script was particularly cruel to.
I don’t dislike Primeval—I did enjoy the plot to an extent, but it was let down by its inability to handle its own themes. It feels like it wants to say a lot and comes away saying very little. A 6/10 from me.
*Again, not saying that a every fictional utopia should necessarily have some sort of ugly underbelly; just that the concept of a utopia in a story should be questioned. That’s what Omelas was about after all—interrogating our responses to fictional utopias. Anyway, this post is already far too long!
Some really interesting ideas here that i do like, but maaan what is it with these 5th Doctor audios and being so boring? I don’t even know why I think they’re boring! Is it really just that many have unluckily scripts not for my taste? Or do i just straight up not like Five on audio? But i don’t feel like those things are at play here. It’s just an underlying sense of boring i can’t explain it. Do i sound like an insane person?
Nyssa going back to Traken, cool idea! She’s sick most of the time and there are no interesting dilemma’s about the fact she is on her for her dead home planet. It could’ve given us such interesting character things, but instead the story is about this whole other thing that could have kinda been done on any planet. But sure, extra lore for established places is nice. Still feels weird. It’s like going to a swimming pool only to eat hot dogs. Like yeah sure, but if you wanted hot dogs, then why go to a swimming pool? If you wanted this specific plot, why go to Traken? Go to the pool to swim, go to Traken for interesting Nyssa moments. Do i sound like an insane person?
I didn’t dislike the plot that we got. It was kind of interesting. Politics mixed with some crazy cosmic beings. Just the curse of the Fifth boringer hanging over it. It gradually became better though i think.
That God guy revealing that he had planned the entirety of Nyssa’s journey all along is some “Sutekh was on the TARDIS all that time” bullshit lol. Also the whole gods thing. Russel listened to this and thought Pantheon of Discord right?
3/5
No, you’re right. The vast majority of Five audios are boring. I think especially the earlier ones feel so deathly dull because Peter Davidson and Sarah Sutton are bedding into the audio format - they get a lot more vibrant in later audios, and it doesn’t help too that a lot of the stories seem to be relatively samey: they go to the past and Nyssa gets a disease or cursed or kidnapped or something