Oh I’m all for having a break - it just might mean we have to lock @sircarolyn in a sound-proofed room so we can’t hear their wailing.
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I’ll be okay, I’ll have NEW GALLIFREY to be going insane over <3
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Also I do agree with a break purely because I think the reaction to being made to wait from Panacea to Reborn will be funny
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Looks like I am in the minority as I did not love this. I thought it was good, but nothing special. I was more annoyed at the body swapping than anything else and as such, Romana and Leela each acting like the other got old fast. It did not add anything new or interesting, or do anything unique with the trope. Lalla Ward and Louise Jameson do as great job as always though.
Also, the aforementioned noises of broken man were unpleasant but at least not as bad as the torture in Cyberman: Scorpius which had me stop that series right from the start. I am curious about the mystery around and identity of the broken man’s, but I am not sure when I will be able to listen to Pandora. Or if I wlll make it through it.
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Finally got around to starting this. It’s probably my least favorite of Series 2, I’m not terribly keen on the body swap bits, though I will admit that they’re really well acted. I will also say that I love Darkel in this series (Gallifrey overall, not just Series 2). She gets so much more depth and character here than in Trial. I’ll post more thoughts as I progress through this story.
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I do love that this is essentially a two-hander for most of runtime. There are some interesting discussions about faith vs science, and Lalla and Louise are at the top of their game.
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I’ve just reached the mind swap section, and image my surprise when I hear the identity of the Broken Man uttered by Romana and hidden in amongst other dialogue (early in Track 13).
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Finished this tonight and thought it was as good as I remembered. The central conceit of contrasting Leela and Romana’s outlook on life is extremely well written and acted by Jameson and Ward and having them swap minds puts a clever focus on this - especially as it isn’t a straight forward body but more that elements of their personality have swapped whilst retaining the core of their characters.
I don’t remember who the Broken Man is, which is good (although I have a suspicion) and that part of the plot was well seeded into the drama, slowly building throughout and then feeding into the Leela vs Romana contrast.
I will say that I still think the story could have balanced Leela’s faith against Romana’s science a little better because I do feel it still errs on the side of science rather than giving equal value to both viewpoints and, as a Christian, I really felt myself chiming with Leela’s comments about nature with her musing on how a fruit knows to be tasty and the whole concept of intelligent design. Romana’s dismissal of it felt ever so slightly Richard Dawkinsy (ironically). I’m not dismissing natural selection of course, I’m not an idiot - Christians/religious people can recognise the science but it also doesn’t, for me, exclude the element of a higher power having a hand in it.
Sorry - that all got a bit deep - it just rankled me a little that Romana’s ‘acceptance’ of Leela’s viewpoint still came across as a little patronising.
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No, it’s fine. I finished this today as well. I appreciate your noting of Romana sounding like Dawkins. For me, I too am a Christian, it does sound patronizing. While I firmly believe in a literal six-day creation, a young earth, and do not believe in monkey-to-man/dinosaur-to-bird/fish-to-amphibian macro-evolution, I do recognize that micro-evolution within a species or kind exists. I can see micro-evolution in domestic animal breeding and breeding heartier varieties of fruit. What I don’t believe in is the kind of evolution that posits the creation of a new kind of animal from another. I believe that dinosaurs were one kind (or group of kinds) and that birds are a separate kind. Anyway, that’s enough philosophy for now. Bring on Pandora!
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It’s really the thing about her character. So unbelieveably compelling. I love what you said about the only place she belonged being with the doctor. I think that’s one thing that draws so many people to the show, because with the doctor, anyone can belong.
Leela’s treatment not by the characters but by the writers actually the only thing about this series I have actively disliked about this series. She is such a curious person and has been living on Gallifrey for decades and she really has never heard the word ‘chemical’ before? I find that hard to believe. I mean, she has K9 to ask with her at all times! But in this story she is so clearly enamored by the natural in a way that felt true to her that it made me wonder what is going on in her psyche. And it actually does make a lot of sense, with her ongoing heartbreak, struggle for belonging and constant rejection and is so, so interesting in that way. But I do which her character would be treated with a bit more nuance and deeper understanding.
This!!! She just cannot let go and she is literally responsible for an entire ■■■■■■■ planet, no actually, for the entirety of time and it is so bad for her. And every one else. She makes all the decisions based on her own opinions and honestly Brax is probably the only one who can influence her but even he can only direct her focus not control her. She is so manipulative and controlling and mentally ill and I love her for it <3
The thing is that they are both such a mess in so specific ways that even though they make each other so much worse, it would be a thousand times more terrible if they were kept apart. To me, the feelings are romantic on Romana’s part but she definitely does not know that, they are for sure intense though (could be platonic, queerplatonic or whatever), I just think it makes her worse <3. Leela, I think, does not have the capacity for anything but needing a friend, someone she can trust and who is in her corner, at this point.
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I did note that as well. While I do think it fits Romana as a character very well to dismiss this outright, the narrative could use to treat Leela and by extension her worldview more equally. My own relationship to faith is rather complicated but it does feel wrong to me to outright dismiss either one.
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Finally sat down and read through your essay and love every word of it. Absolutely brilliant analysis
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Thank you very much!
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Just for the record I’m not dismissing Romana’s world view - or real world science for that matter. I don’t believe you can ‘not believe’ in proven science but I do believe faith and science can co-exist. Evolution happened/happens but that doesn’t, for me, preclude a belief in God. Other versions of Christianity are available (but don’t even get me started on any group of ‘Christians’ who advocate hatred of ANY group of people. They are just outright using religion as an excuse for bigotry and that’s unacceptable).
Off-topic-ness ended.
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Not quite yet!
I just wanted to say that this is how I see things as well. Now, my father is a theologist and vicar in his local parish, but I am not, and have never been, a devout Christian. I believe in science in all its forms, but I also believe that faith can explain things science can’t, and I have some sort of belief in higher powers that sometimes nudge our lives in certain directions (whether that’s God or something else, I don’t know). Science and faith can definitely co-exist and look at the same things from different angles. Christianity, to me, is mostly important for the moral lessons (of peace, love, life, and unity) it teaches and the traditions (Christmas, Easter, etc.) it has created.
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I am definitely #TeamRomana!
Science Leads!
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I also noticed that but I didn’t give it much thought. It feels so natural that Time Lords are being arrogant and patronising. The Doctor talks like that half of the time, tbh
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Some fan art for the ep I found while trawling the tumblr tag
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Ah, you stole my idea! I have a thousand more things to say but instead of wittering on, I thought I’d share some fanart I love of this episode. Here’s the imaginary comic cover by the incredibly talented joycieillustrations
I’d fully reccommend checking out the other covers she did - I think she got all the way to the end of s2: here
Also I’ve found reading the discussion about science vs spirituality very interesting, and though I myself am completely non-religious, I have appreciated reading the thoughts here, and I have often thought too that Romana comes across as very patronising towards Leela. However I do also think it’s a learning moment for Romana to realise that she is being unfairly dismissive towards Leela. In general, I hate the way science/religion are pitted against each other because there is no reason why they cannot co-exist, and I think this episode very nearly gets to that point, but slightly misses the mark
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I think this sums it up for me.
However, I don’t actually think Romana does have a learning moment and it annoys me because Leela has adapted her world view hugely to fit into Gallifreyan society but Romana finds it far too easy to scoff at Leela’s comments despite the fact she is usually proven to be correct in her thoughts, just having come to them from a different viewpoint or via a different path.
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