My favourite Cyberman “story” is ‘World enough and Time/The Doctor falls’.
I only know one origin, and it ain’t even my favourite lol.
I don’t know if I agree. I guess ‘World enough/Falls’ is more Master centered¿
Oh, because I just read it. ‘Villa Diodati’ is great, but I don’t know if it counts either.
To be fair I don’t think it’s more master centred, but I think it’s a roughly equal split focus that means I can’t personally just call it a ‘cyberman story’ as it were
Oh, I LOVE this, and am in agreement with your criteria. Excellent stuff.
Would I say that the Cybermen are my favourites? Nope, but they’re certainly up there. I feel that you sum up the essence of the Cybermen so well. In my opinion, they have huge potential yet only a small number of stories actually take advantage of their potential fully.
It does frustrate me when they are treated as generic villains/monsters. They believe that they are benefitting humanity and compatible humanoid species through the ‘gift’ of conversion. Because of what they’ve lost/sacrificed/given up, they can never see nor accept why they are so wrong and why their ‘gift’ is so dreadful. Like a virus, they are a self-replicating scourge, their spread is invetable. They, more than any other creature in the DW universe evolve rapidly (just like viruses) as they adapt, upgrade and constantly strive for betterment… but in a purely functional sense of survival and power.
To be fair I’d say they’re not my favourite villians in practice precisely because so few stories take full advantage of them, but in theory they’re so so good.
But yeah, they’re way too often treated as generic villian army in a way that you could easily just swap them out for Daleks and it wouldn’t make much difference.
Power of the Doctor is a very fun story, but I can’t for a second believe that Cybermen and Daleks would really work together because their goals are diametrically opposed. It tries to get around that by having The Master be in control of the Cybermen, and there being a story setting that up, but even then, I just don’t see it
Throwing MR 258: Warzone/Conversion into the ring, though the focus is definitely more on the Doctor’s guilt/grief/trauma over Adric’s death, rather than the cybermen themselves. However, it doesn’t just use them as generic villains and ticks off the Inevitability and Conversion checkboxes, and Warzone especially builds on what @realdoctor says here:
They believe that they are benefitting humanity and compatible humanoid species through the ‘gift’ of conversion. Because of what they’ve lost/sacrificed/given up, they can never see nor accept why they are so wrong and why their ‘gift’ is so dreadful. Like a virus, they are a self-replicating scourge, their spread is invetable.
In Warzone, Five, Nyssa, Tegan and Marc are dropped right into the middle of a rather intense (and sometimes deadly) marathon. Along the way, the Doctor begins to realise that the “enhancements” that the participants have been raving about are actually gradual cyber-conversions, establishing that the Cybermen send seeding ships to human[oid] colonies to keep spreading across the universe.
ESMA: Ten years ago, a spaceship crashed. […] But every advancement, every synthetic, every serum that we have now, can be traced back to that ship.
STEWARD: That technology was analysed, commercialized - and now it’s turning us into better people. Sir.
DOCTOR: Any Cyber-craft is equipped for local population conversion – it sounds like your people have inadvertently salvaged some very dangerous technology.
STEWARD: There is nothing “dangerous” about it.
DOCTOR: (IGNORING HIM) But if you’re both telling the truth, and the word ‘Cyberman’ really is unheard of here on Semotus… well, firstly, shame on you for not bringing your history books along from Earth! And secondly, why are you rewarding those who qualify today with automatic upgrades? Why are you choosing to change yourselves??
STEWARD: (BLANKLY) Because… it feels right.
ESMA: (BLANKLY) Yeah, deep down, it just feels like this is what we are meant to do. Become better.
DOCTOR: Fascinating. Cyber-conversion operating on a gradual, subconscious level… without realising, you’ve folded Cyber-technology it into your lives – into your minds. Cybermen aren’t interested in Marathons, but you’ve blended their insane desire to improve and dominate with your own vanity, your physical insecurity, your competitiveness. And the result is this perverse race. […] reaching the finish line, ‘Qualifying’ - if that’s the chosen euphemism – it’s the next evolutionary stage. Every runner who finishes this race will be one step closer to lining up in an actual Cyber army!
Added the cybermen tag.
Oh whoops, cheers, forgot that was a thing!
Like many here have said already, I really like Cybermen in theory. They have so much potential, more than the Daleks do, but like the Daleks they very rarely get good stories that utilise the interesting things about them. I think everyone here already knows my favourite Cyberman story is Cyberwoman, and a lot of it is because it ticks all the boxes @JayPea mentioned (the rest of it is Ianto’s arc, but that’s a post for a different thread, or perhaps a review).
I do think there are Revival stories that handle the Cybermen well enough. Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel leans in on the body horror and loss, but I do agree it’s all somewhat overshadowed by the alternate universe. World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls I feel handles the balance a lot better, especially in the first part. We get the full horror of conversation and even lose a companion to it, which I don’t believe has happened before that point (I do think it might have been even better if Bill was fully converted and didn’t maintain herself beneath the Cyber shell, but that would be a different story with a lot less hope, which isn’t something I particularly want from Doctor Who).
Now for a question I’ve had for a while, if we’re already talking Cybermen - what’s with the Cybershades? Did they cyber convert cats? Why do I want one as a pet so bad?
Oh I hate the Cybershades. I’m pretty sure the story says they are converted cats or something but their realisation is so cheap - ballet shoes and a shaggy rug.
Now, the cybermats in Illegal Alien… that’s properly horrific. 
My favorite? Legend of the Cybermen
Any good Cybermen stories? If you mean TV I disagree a bit. I like Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel and both Capaldi Cybermen episodes are top tier for me. You can make an argument they aren’t Cybermen focused tho and yeah, fair enough.
That’s absolutely my argument, I love both of them, but they both split the focus too much for me to call them ‘Cyberman focused’ stories
Oh yes, Legend of the Cybermen is wonderful.
May I make a request of the Doctor Who production team (or even Big Finish)? Please never pair the Master and Cybermen together ever again! I’ll gladly take more Master stories and I’ll gladly take more Cybermen stories, but don’t ever pair them up again! We had too much of that too fast (Series 8, Series 10, Series 12, Power of the Doctor).
I think they are amazing, and often they do have pretty good or fun stories (in classic mainly), but… a lot of them aren’t good Cybermen Story.
I think Earthshock is incredible, and I adore Banks Portrayal of the Cyber-Leader every time, but really… if they weren’t Cybermen, do we reckon the Story would change that much? Not to say they have, a lot of the guilt that happened with Adric was used pretty well I say in Spare Parts and Warzone/Conversion.
But looking at all those other 80s Appearances of the Cybermen while charming, only Attack I would call goes into some darker places of them.
What I am trying to say is, really I feel like some Stories just kinda forget the whole “Emotionless Human” Aspect of them and that you can see quite easily in some of their 80s Outing mainly Earthshock and Nemesis, which I repeat I do think both Stories can be entertaining and Earthshock is great, but… I am not sure if I can call them proper Cyber-Stories.
Then you have something like Revenge, which I honestly find charming, but again they kinda forgot such an important part of the Cybermen, and they come across as anything but not emotional.
I adore the 60s and I think in many ways they have their peak here, because while yes we don’t necessarily explore the body horror, most if not all their plots is of finding a new place or related to survival. I think you can do a good Cybermen Story without the Body horror, if you remember that their plans shouldn’t necessarily be “evil”, more so plans which make sense for them. Because at the end of the Day while yes obviously they are an agnostic Force, they aren’t your “evil robots, who want to blow up the Earth”.
Which brings me to the revival… I think the revival has some good Cybermen Stories, but as many pointed it out when they come to play they play second fiddle to something/somebody else. And not only that, often their plans can feel quite generic and make you feel like you are watching an evil robot army. Eleven’s Era is pretty much them doing the Cybermen dirty many times, neither Closing Time or Silver Nightmare are particular good stories for me, but what they are doing with the Cybermen is honestly insulting. (I haven’t listened to Sins of the Flesh, still need to get around to the other three box sets of that range, so I will wait on my judgement with that, high hopes after all the praise here)
Similarly, while I really do like Dark Water/Death in heaven it’s in a similar field to me as the Invasion where while the Story is amazing and doesn’t necessarily do something as bad as some 11 Stories with them, I do think it’s mainly a Master Story really. Similarly, the Invasion is mainly a Tobias Vaughn Story for me.
The Potential is there to use them really well, but sadly often this route is just not taken for some reason. I mean, the body horror really offers a lot and when uses well, it is used very well. And even as I said, being more careful with their plans would also help. Sure, their Plan in the Moonbase is a bit bonkers, but it makes sense and has “some twisted logic” behind it.
Oh well, that was a bit messy, but I still wanted to share some of my own thoughts to the mix, especially when it comes to the Point of their Plans.
My favourite story (I’m not sure what type of story so I’m going to go into episode and audio drama) is Spare Parts and World Enough And Time/The Doctor Falls.
My favourite origin is the origin in Spare Parts.
No
Cybermen may have come first, but Borg are better.
I think the Borg run into a lot of the same problems, where the writers sometimes forget they used to be people and are just a generic villain. This isn’t always the case, and I do think the Born are used well a little more often, but I won’t lie and say I didn’t get bored of seeing them by the end of TNG.
SOMETHlNG SOMETHING SINS OF THE FLESH GOOD!
I love the Cybermen, maybe more so than the Daleks. They’re rarely treated well but I always find enjoyment in their appearances. I love the ever-evolving designs and the different interpretations. I even love the sassy hands on hips fella from Revenge of the Cybermen.
For me, the best Cyberman stories are The Tenth Planet, The Tomb of the Cybermen, The Invasion, Earthshock, Rise of the Cybermen, and World Enough and Time (but The Doctor Falls drops the ball, sadly). I also like the idea of Ashad but his appearances and stories don’t do anything for me.
Haven’t heard any audio stories but I know fans rave about Spare Parts. I’ll get around to it some day.
I don’t think the Cybermen have ever truly been bettered than the 60s Cybermen. That was their peak, for me. Designs, voices, stories. I love the camper ones in the 80s and I have a real soft spot for the Cybus ones, but 60s Cybermen are peak.
This is true, and the same applies to the Daleks. They were at their most effective in their 60s appearances. They are somehow much deadlier, more raw and genuine. They aren’t there simply to spout catchphrases and sell toys.