Which is indeed part of why it’s good that we have the freedom to count whatever we want as canon
Absolutely - and this is why I get irritated by fans who confuse canon with continuity and then harp on about how something has ‘destroyed the canon’ when that really isn’t what they mean.
I’m also not on board with the idea that fans get to ‘choose’ what is canon for them. What they actually mean is ‘what counts’ and in Doctor Who there isn’t really any reason to choose what counts and what doesn’t. Usually what they mean is they are choosing or not choosing something based on whether it affects they’re understanding of the show’s continuity - the Timeless Child being the obvious and most extreme example. By declaring it ‘not canon’ they are trying to justify not liking something by pretending it doesn’t count. That’s arrogant nonsense as far as I’m concerned. If it’s been officially released as a Doctor Who story then it’s a Doctor Who story whether you like what’s in it or not. How it affects continuity is not a valid reason for counting it or not for the simple fact that. as @MrColdStream and @TARDIS32 point out, the show’s TV continuity alone is a huge mess of contradictions right back to retconning the Daleks in Dalek Invasion and completely changing it’s ‘rules’ for altering history between The Reign of Terror and The Time Meddler. And that’s before we even get to Atlantis, who built and named the TARDIS and how many regenerations a Time Lord has.
Everything is canon & Nothing is canon is the paradoxical only way of looking at it, IMO. You can choose to ‘ignore’ a story but it doesn’t stop if from existing and it doesn’t stop the show from building on aspects of it however much some fans might stomp their feet and gnash their teeth.
I think this outlines it pretty well. You’re right that it’s not exactly choosing what “canon” they want to accept or not. Can’t choose what doesn’t actually exist. I use the word “canon” quite loosely, mainly because we don’t really have a better word to describe “a collection of stories that fit within one’s idea of Doctor Who continuity.” But yeah, it’s still Doctor Who whether one likes what it’s doing continuity-wise or not. Personally, I mainly follow the TV show’s idea of continuity at the given time, regardless of how that paradigm has changed over 61 years. Anything else is just “well, that’s more Doctor Who to consume if I want, which is cool to have.”
It’s funny how the notion of “canon” is such a hot topic in all fandoms, especially DW. It’s a pretty ridiculous idea when you think about it. Why are we so preoccupied with what is or isn’t canon; who gets to decide it and what does it all mean? Because, at the end of the day, nothing of it actually matters; the primary function of a Doctor Who story is to entertain, full stop. But these days, fans are obsessed with things having to “matter”, and discussions of canon have become ways to dismiss stories one doesn’t like - one can say it isn’t canon, and so doesn’t matter, instead of just admitting that one doesn’t like the story, for whatever reason.
Discussions of canon are simultaneously frustrating and fascinating, and will alwyas be a part if this fandom, whether we like it or not.
I think part of the issue with canon, is that fans like to have a definitive order/definitive chronology. They want a specific order they can put things on their shelves. And with the modern concept of binge-watching, that need for a strict order is even more prevelant. Take Star Trek, it has stardates, you can plug anything in anywhere based on a specific piece of data. Star Wars has a definitive timeline (well, technically two these days). A leads to B leads to C. You can read New Jedi Order, then Dark Nest, then Legacy of Force, then Fate of Jedi. Plot and character beats in order affect the next which affects the next. You can draw a roughly straight line between Jacen Solo’s experiences in the Yuuzhan Vong War to his fall to the Dark Side. Fans want “a strict progression of cause to effect” as much as we like the occasional non-linear story, we really don’t want “a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff”.
Not being a contrarian here, that is exactly what I want … I don’t want a definitive order or chronology.
I don’t care for the strict rules in this kind of entertainment, Disney for instance might have labelled earlier Star Wars EU stuff as “Legends” which isn’t canon, but that doesn’t remove my personal enjoyment of stuff like the “Heir to the Empire” trilogy, and if I think it counts then it counts for me
A big ball of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff for me please
He looks so ridiculous in that scene, it totally saps the emotional impact of the scene for me…
The Morbius Doctors have always been “canon” in my eyes
(How else are you supposed to interpret that scene?)
People tried to reinterpret it as having been prior versions of Morbius, I think, which doesn’t really make that much sense. They were definitely intended to be the Doctor when filmed.
(And, for that matter, the Curse of Fatal Death Doctors were actually intended to be canon at the time they were filmed, too…)
Take Star Trek, it has stardates, you can plug anything in anywhere based on a specific piece of data.
Well, if you’re watching TNG onward you can. TOS, TAS, and stuff in that era like early DIS and SNW, the number is actually meaningless. TNG they actually had a system to it: 4xyyy where x is the season number and y increases from 000-999 over the course of the season which represents a year. DS9, VOY, LD, etc. followed that with where their episodes are in relation to TNG. Even in TNG season 1 the stardates aren’t the best, given there are episodes before Skin of Evil that have stardates after Skin of Evil, which is of course a major continuity issue if you know what happens in that episode. Plenty of other issues related to stardates can be found, so they’re not 100% reliable.
Probably partially because they weren’t filmed in the order aired. Denise Crosby’s last episode filmed was Symbiosis, which was clearly before Skin of Evil.
Is that because the numbers were allocated in filming order rather than story order?
Or is it just a mistake?
You probably know this already, but you can see them waving goodbye to the fans at the end of their last-filmed scene until they brought her back, at least.
I believe it is a filming order thing, but I’m not certain.
An image of the Doctor is the Doctor…
Recent talk on the forum has reminded me of a hot take of mine. I don’t think ‘Christmas specials’ should have to really be about Christmas. Having a special extra episode a year is the part that excites me, I’m very neutral on things being Christmas themed. It could still be winter time themed without always being about/on Christmas.
I really enjoyed the switch to New Year’s Specials for a bit there
And part of the reason for the switch was that Chibnall felt that the Christmas specials had run their course because there were fewer and fewer Christmas elements in them apart from a little snow and a Christmas tree. Which is part of the problem—you don’t want to forcibly cram in a lot of Christmas elements just to make the episode Christmassy, but it’s difficult to come up with a fresh Christmas-related story that would work as a special. I’m fully in support of a festive special instead, aired sometime between Christmas and New Year’s, and that wouldn’t be so tied up with Christmas.