Stories set in the Ancient Past

I have been tidying up the next chronology guide (and I still think I’ve got a couple to add when some other bits and pieces finally get added to the site).

This time we’re looking at stories from the formation of the Earth as seen in Exploration Earth as well as the ancient history of a little planet called Marinus.

And yes, this is the same guide where we had a bit of a ‘disagreement’ over where World Enough and Time would go - my source (A HIstory by Lance Parkin) posits a positioning here in the ancient past. Other opinions and theories are available :).


Would Runaway Bride count for this as well, given we see the formation of earth around the Racnoss ship

1 Like

The Runaway Bride is listed in the previous guide to the Dawn of Time (there had to be a cut off at some point).


Ahhhh that makes sense

Also really love reading through these guides!!


Surely if the ship in World Enough and Time is from Mondas it can’t be the ancient past. Some time before 1986 certainly, but ancient past?
I’m guessing the logic of this is to tie it into The World Shapers?

1 Like

We’ve been over this on the forum before haha, I agree with you there’s no way it’s from the ancient past.

1 Like

Okay right let’s settle this and decide I’m right (courtesy of Lance Parkin) :wink:

Parkin’s dating seems to be based on a few things - dialogue from The Tenth Planet, dating theories for Spare Parts and how Mondasian civilisation is depicted in this story (and the background established for it).

In The Tenth Planet, Krail says:

Aeons ago the planets were twins, then we drifted away from you on a journey to the edge of space. Now we have returned.

Parkin marries this with how the background of WEAT e.g. when the ship leaves Mondas, must be these ‘aeons’ ago and before the Mondasians start being converted into Cybermen. He theorises that the story is set at a time when Mondas is still in its original orbit and home to an advanced civilisation - bear in mind none of the Mondasians seen in this story are yet converted into actual Cybermen.

This is a ‘genesis of the Cybermen’ as the Saxon Master says. The Doctor talks about how different planets have different origins for the Cybermen. This is a separate evolution from what eventually happens back on Mondas as it travels back from the edge of the universe mentioned in The Tenth Planet (and which is seen in Spare Parts).

So in summary, how I understand what Parkin is theorising is:

  • The civilisation shown here on a colony ship from Mondas, must be from aeons ago.
  • This is therefore before, or at least around the time of, the aeons ago mentioned as being when Mondas left out solar system and was flung to the edge of the universe. There must have been some sort of civilisation on Mondas when this happened because, otherwise, how would the Cybermen in The Tenth Planet know anything about what had happened.
  • It then must take ‘aeons’ again to return to our solar system.
  • This ship and all its inhabitants are from that period, long long long before 1986.

Now, I’m sure there will be plenty of people for whom this doesn’t work as a theory but I can see the logic.

And as for The World Shapers, that’s an entirely separate evolution for the Cybermen which is why the Doctor’s reference in this story is rather neat. What I think Parkin is establishing is that (with the exception of the parallel universe in Rise of the Cybermen), Cyber-evolution in relation to Earth’s chronology must have happened thousands of years ago for them to be at the stage they are in The Tenth Planet.

It’s definitely not a case of ‘no way it’s the ancient past’ but it is highly debatable - as are many of the theories Parkin puts forward for undateabe stuff in his book.

And this doesn’t even begin to take into account The Cybermen comic strip from DWM which shows the history of Mondas and it’s particular branch of Silurian civilisation!


Sorry but I don’t see why the ship had to have left aeons ago, when the planet first separated from its twin.

Why would Mondas be so far advanced compared to Earth, that they had space flight aeons before Earth did, if they are twin planets?

It makes far more sense that the planets separated aeons ago and then they both evolved separately but at almost the same rate, so that the ship left in 1986 by the time Mondas had travelled back closer to Earth.

That fits nicely with everything we know and makes it so that Mondas has the same rough evolutionary and technological progress as Earth, as befitting a “twin” planet.


A twin planet that has developed spaceships and cybernetic technology far in advance of Earth’s in 1986 as well as having the ability to even return to our solar system.

And even if it is nearer 1986, then that massive, advanced worldship in WEAT is even less believable as being from a planet which evolved at the same rate as us.

I do think I’m solidly with Parkin on this one, even if I can see the slight leaps of logic in his thinking.


I just don’t get why you’re willing to think that them developing space travel and cyber technology a few decades in advance (which could easily be explained by different political choices, a big focus on cybernetics due to climate problems or anything), but you’re willing to think they could have advanced that much aeons ago instead. Like, thousands or millions of years. That makes far less sense!!


You need to read The Cybermen comic strip by Adrian Salmon… :eyes:

But I do get what you’re saying. I’m not sure I fully understand Parkin’s knowledge but his style is so convincing I’m just going to have faith he’s thought it through.