So after having seen @Tian’s reaction to Torchwood, where he said:
I hope that any future spin-offs will learn from this and be equally good.
It made me think - was it a good idea to have an adults-only spin-off like Torchwood, and do you think we will see it again?
I’m currently thinking:
Pros:
A different perspective on the Whoniverse, a way to tell completely different stories (sex gas?) and to maybe lure in different writers and directors who don’t want to work on a ‘family’ show.
Definitely gets publicity as something shocking to talk about
Can deal with more difficult themes that the main show cannot touch
Cons:
A show that is so intertwined with the Whoniverse but off-limits to children cannot do certain things such as include the Doctor, for fear of encouraging young children to see such an adult show
Limits the audience even further - I don’t know about numbers but I can’t imagine non-Who fans tuned into Torchwood alone? Did it bring in any new fans do we think?
Sometimes veered into being rude and sweary just because it could
I don’t think Disney would like to touch it with a barge pole
To me, it all comes down to the story. I think that an adult series can be really good like the last two seasons of Torchwood but it can also feel a bit gimmicky like the first two seasons of TW or all-adult superhero movies that tried to copy Deadpool.
I entirely depends on the type of “adult-only” stuff we’re talking about. I could do without sex, gory or over-the-top violence and unnecessary foul language. Especially if you’re only adding so that you be adult-only. I think an adult-only show would have a place to discuss more adult themes that would less likely to be touched by the main show. So it entirely depends on the writing and types of stories it tells.
I have met a handful of people who only watched Torchwood and not Doctor Who. Not sure there were enough to really be worth it, though. Personally, I’d love another adult spin-off. I do think there was a little too much sex for my taste, but there were definitely some good and interesting stories that wouldn’t have worked in a family friendly show. I also like that many of the characters are complicated and unlikeable, but I doubt they’d be able to get away with it with today’s poor media literacy climate.
Anthology horror with episodes on the cybermen really delving into conversion as a thing, ‘Dalek’ meets Alien as a horror film with people just trying to get away, but killed one by one, maybe even something with a peaceful alien featuring humans as the monster, idk, just spitballing
I’d love to see it attempted again, I think it could work. Living here in Germany, funnily enough does also bring a different perspective to one of the Questions in said Cons Part. While true the Appeal will be limited, for a while, at least if I recall correctly from what I heard and saw from others, Torchwood was actually much more popular than current Doctor Who over here. Which I think brings out an important point: While true your connection to the Whoniverse are more limited, it can bring in plenty of new fans who may never see Who or aren’t too big on it. So in many ways this sort of disconnect could be quite inviting for plenty of people.
I am not sure what exactly they would do, while I do love a Horror anthology, I am not sure for how long you can keep on doing that.
Either way, I am open for the Idea!
So my slightly controversial take is that the fandom at large is a bit rose-tinted about Torchwood because of its admittedly fantastic queer rep and because doing an “adult” version of Doctor Who was enough of a desire that just doing it felt like a good thing. But I also remember a lot of Torchwood being cringy, naff, and poorly written. I haven’t rewatched in a while, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I think if you try to make a Torchwood again in 2025, you’re far more susceptible to the criticisms it got when it first game out, which basically sum up to “It’s trying way too hard to pretend it’s got big-boy pants on”. Given that one of the big criticisms of Season WhateverWeCallIt is that it felt dumbed down at certain points, this risk is amplified.
To provide a counterpoint, I really think that if you want to start making Doctor Who for adults again, you need to invest more heavily in books that are closer to the VNAs. Not edginess for the sake of it, but being more willing to investigate characters, emotions, and mature storylines. The modern Docs (9-13) have none of this, with all of their books being very obviously geared to the YA market, where there’s a deep well of actually good adult fiction to be mined from there if someone was willing to go for it. The counter argument to that is “Where’s the market” to which I respond “You are making a Silurians and Sea Devils spin off, you clearly have no regard for whether there’s a market or not.”
Early Torchwood, especially the first season, to me feels like “this is what a preteen thinks adult TV is.” It’s adult, but I find lacks maturity in many places. I agree with a lot of the above.
The problem mostly is that the BBFC and other ratings boards have really skewed what the idea of “adult” means, and it boils down mostly to shaggin’ and stabbin’, so when people want to do more adult versions of things, that’s often the first port of call.
Except that’s not what maturity is at all. The Terrifier movies, full of the aforementioned two S words, are some of the most childish things to have been misguidedly committed to film print. Conversely, there are some stories ostensibly for children that deal with tremendously adult themes but in ways that people of any age could potentially grasp and understand because they’re executed with a multi-layered approach. Kind of like Doctor Who. Torchwood got there eventually, with Children Of Earth, and even that doesn’t escape the “darkness for darkness’ sake” accusations.
I’m not saying we need to go fully Timewyrm again. This sort of writing requires a lot more thought than just having tits in the show from time to time. I think the best way to do it is books because you get a diverse enough range of voices that, in time, the range becomes something with a title for everyone, rather like the books of the 90s and early 2000s. Do I trust Rusty The Davis to do this personally? Not at all, but there’s a world where it’s possible and it also increases the plurality and diversity of creativty in the program, whilst also providing platforms for new writers, something the show desperately needs.
I think it’s a risk, but I think there’s definitely ways you can avoid it. I’ve always pitched a torchwood revival as being set in the 1980s, that way you can explore a lot of the themes of things today, but have that level of detachment from reality.
I think a big problem when torchwood came out if that you look at it, and it feels like it’s trying to be a modern police show with aliens, but having a lot of similar shows without the aliens in to compare it to, it can feel silly at times. It’s not a critique I personally have of it, but it’s one that I can understand.
It had one. They called it Class, and it was good, and - oh yeah - it ended up on TV in a graveyard double-bill slot. I think it’d be nice to see happen for a third time. But I don’t think it’d get handled well in the world of TV now by people further up the chain.
I disagree. I think Torchwood was made more explicitly for the adult audience than the teen audience. Like I’d say Class was TV-14 and Torchwood TV-MA to use US TV ratings.
It feels like it is made for hormonal teens, especially the early episodes. It barely tackles any real adult themes at all until season 3. It feels more like how teens think that grown-ups are than actually grown-ups.
My point was more in intent than execution. I agree that in execution it came across as immature early on, but the intent was for an older audience than Class.
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