…or insisted on a lot of stultifyingly static exposition to make sure that their casual audience knew who they (the Rani and Omega) both were. RTD is typically so much more deft at the way he does that kind of thing.
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He used to be. I’m sorry the whole era feels consistent in the bad writing from RTD2.
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I suspect Disney will drop out and honestly? It should stay a BBC only production. This hasn’t worked well, except for the fact its more accessible. They can still have it on Disney+ but not have Disney involved perhaps? I do think if Disney weren’t there and the new renewal thing was in place Ncuti would’ve done one more.
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We won’t agree on this (and that’s OK) but I see a big tonal difference between eps 1-7 and ep 8. I’ve broadly really enjoyed much of RTD2.
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I don’t think the Doctor saving Poppy was to preserve Conrad’s idea of a woman’s purpose being to look after her child personally. I think it’s more the idea of saving one person who previously existed, because it was a living being who was suddenly wiped from reality, and as Ruby says, he did the same for her when the goblins’ meddling removed her from existence.
To me, it was more the idea that the Doctor fights for anyone, and everybody is real even if they once were not.
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I honestly think this was the message they were aiming for, however to me and many others it came across and more ‘look how happy Belinda is to have her whole life rewritten without her consent to make her into a mother’. As others have said, motherhood is NOT bad or a problem, but the way this episode made her deviate so much from the character we knew and seemed to have no reflection on what a horror having your life rewritten around you should be - that left a bad taste in my mouth
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I just wish she was a mother from the start, then none of this would have been a problem
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We need all the gossip!
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And the fact that she so obviously wasn’t is why this is such a big problem.
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Was that what happened? I took it much more like Poppy was a “glitch” beyond any control of the Doctor.
Belinda was insisting on making sure Poppy stayed “real”, I am not sure why the Doctor should ask Belinda for consent for something that basically was a side effect of the Wish World experiment the Rani(s) conducted.
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I am in complete agreement with @sircarolyn. And, like it or not, the result is that the Doctor DOES preserve that element of Conrad’s reality (at the complete expense of Belinda’s future and agency - that actually makes it seem worryingly pro life, which I KNOW won’t have been the intent).
The big difference between what the Doctor did for Ruby in The Church on Ruby Road and what he does for Poppy here is that Ruby was real and the Goblins had rewritten history because of his invocation of coincindence. He rectified this and brought her back. By contrast, Conrad’s Poppy was a construct made from the Doctor’s memories of Captain Poppy to make a family ‘prison’ for the Doctor and Belinda against their will.
Ruby’s distress makes sense, but she can be wrong. Her perspective was coloured by her own past which made it impossible to see the truth.
Conrad’s reality (even in part) lives on, Belinda’s life and future are rewritten and Conrad is now happy himself.
It leaves a very bad taste.
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What she wanted before Poppy—and all memories of her—vanished: To keep her Daughter Poppy alive.
What she wanted after Poppy—and all memories of her—vanished: I don’t quite remember, would have to watch again.
What she got: A rewrite of her history—with the possibility of destroying the entire universe. And unclear what persons maybe do not exist anymore, after the rewrite.
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I’ll pass it on as I get it. Suffice to say, for now, she’s been disconsolate at hearing about leaks because she’s worked so hard to keep what she was told and saw secret until broadcast.
Mind you, it’s pretty easy to see how leaks happen. It’s a BIG ask to expect a bunch of Uni students all to keep their mouths shut, and pretty much impossible to pin down the source of leaks from groups like that. It only takes one loose lipped individual… and the cat’s out of the proverbial bag.
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I wasn’t really invested in Poppy but the way it played out to me, Belinda never once mentioned a daughter but now her timeline has been rewritten she’s a single mum & more passive. Earlier in the season she complained to Doccy Who about scanning her without consent, here she’s fine with him scanning her daughter 
& of course before that he just put them both in a box.
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Also, to all those who genuinely enjoyed… I feel bad for being a purveyor of any negativity. It simply isn’t me as a rule, but I’m trying to reconcile my own thoughts and make sense of a final episode that just seems so tonally opposite so much of the rest AND so clunky in execution (in ways the other episodes simply haven’t been).
My apologies if I’ve been a downer for anyone. There were elements I very much enjoyed (some of which I was vocal about earlier). Thing is, I sincerely believe there’s something very good lurking under the surface here. Something that has been altered/perverted from original intent.
Something smells like a fish market. 
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On the topic of Poppy: do we think only the Doctor and Belinda got a magical child in Conrad’s wish world? As in, when the Doctor brought Poppy back, did that also happen to other wish world children??
On the wish world: I’ve been thinking about how some things make more sense if we assume some people had some power over the wish. The Doctor wishing for a child is the obvious thing, but Mel getting to the top of UNIT tower on a scooter, with a perm is another. Maybe even the whole battle mode of the tower was somewhat Kate’s wish (I’m no engineer, but I’m pretty sure you can’t just rotate a building like that). Susan Triad building a Zero Room with scraps in 10 minutes could be another. I don’t think any of this has much impact on the plot, but it was interesting to think about.
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Now that I’ve had a day to think about it, I believe what would have worked for me is if the Doctor, seeing Poppy blink out of existence, had performed a spontaneous and heroic act—spending regeneration energy to stabilize her.
Then, after a brief moment of joy, the realization would hit: that meant he had to die/regenerate.
What follows: a farewell tour to fill the remaining 15 to 20 minutes, similar to the 10th Doctor’s—only even better. 
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Whether intended or not, my head canon at this point is that Ruby’s wish for Conrad to be happy rewrote reality to give everything an ending Conrad would be happy with…
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With you entirely. I haven’t enjoyed being negative here, but I’ve also felt it important to raise my issues and discuss them, instead of bottling them up and wallowing in more misery. But I’m doing my best to remind folks at every opportunity that I still respect those who enjoyed it, and want to hear their voices too.
So yes, well said!
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