Audio Club: Zagreus

I did it.
Took me a while because I started like 10 different audio’s too between two weeks ago and today. Just act like I was here day one.

Zagreus was actually almost the first audio I’d ever listened to. Pretty much exactly a year ago, when I went onto the Big Finish site for one of the first times, I stumbled across this story. Mostly I thought it looked interesting because of the description (zagreus sits inside your head etc) and then the appeal of multiple Doctors, plus, more importantly, it was the cheapest thing I could find for the longest run time. But of course, if I was going to make an important purchase like that, I would like to know what the danged story was about first. That description, intriguing as it might be, wasn’t particularly informative. So I got to tardis wiki, and read the plot. Not that I understood everything, but it sounded cool. Later though, I found it on Spotify, for free, but oh, it seems to be some sort of finale… Better listen to those others first! But by that time I had already joined TARDIS Guide, and this very audio club would soon follow.

:clap: Well anyways regardless of how fun melodramatic retellings of scrolling the Big Finish site are, I’ll give some opinions now, about this story that I’ve waited for oh so long, before you’ve fallen asleep.

The plot! I read it before. Sounded great back then, but was worried that that meant there would be spoilers for me now. Shouldn’t have worried, because I’m pretty sure anyone’s feeble attempt to summarize Zagreus would just end up with a completely different story. It’s kind of dreamy, I like that about it. Charley steps into dreams basically too, and you could say the Doctor walks around half dreaming. Like any dream, it’s very open to interpretation, very diverse in the way people look at it. Like I actually see a perfectly clear story with small absurdist tendencies. I could tell you what happens easily, but I would get it wrong. How wonderful! You know some people say that a piece of art doesn’t take value in if what its creator intended comes across to its public. It can be meaningless and meaningful at the same time to different people, or to the same person at different times. This applies to everything, but of course, most to dreams, with which I mean Zagreus. They can take so long, but go by so quickly. I basically listened to a full part each sitting and it goes by really fast. Each ‘dream’ in which Charley steps supported by lore drops or pure insanity with that mysterious otherworldly thing that’s like a cosmic night terror looming over the universe, waiting until it ends, it’s neat. It makes you want to continue, on with more adventures, travel with them, keep dreaming this lovely dream, but don’t sleep for too long, or Zagreus might eat you.

Enough with that idiotic dream analogy, let’s interpret it as a story about believing. Believing that there is hope as long as the Doctor lives, believing that you are who you are not, believing in science but also in God, Matthew Townsend believes in God, Matthew Townsend is the Doctor, the Doctor believes he is Zagreus, Zagreus believes he is God, Matthew Townsend really only believes in himself?
Nah, rubbish. Let’s just interpret it as a story about space fascism. I think that’s easier. Exterminate the vampires for being different from us. I mean the Doctor literally calls Rassilon a bigot. All life in the universe should be modeled after what we are. Very on the nose but always good.
Hm. Maybe it’s just a story about how Alice’s adventures in wonderland are a whole lot of nonsense that people read too deeply into.

But nonsense is fun sometimes. And sometimes fun is sense enough. So maybe that’s just it. What the story is really about. Romana writing fanfiction.
9/10

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Romana writing fanfiction is the singular greatest moment of Zagreus and explains so much about her

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My contribution to this thread:

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The old girl was so mad at him :sob: :sob: :sob:

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Relistened to this one yesterday and today. I feel like every time I find new moments to appreciate

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It’s interesting how plain and “corporate” Big Finish has become over the years.

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listened to this for the first time recently, after listening to a few other eight and charley audios, and i had so much fun. other doctors, alice in wonderland, romana (!!), k9, the tardis being, well, like that… i was slightly dreading it at first because of the length, but i ended up feeling like i would’ve wanted it to be longer. also, romana writing fanfiction will always be one of my favourite moments

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So I just finished this and was pleasantly surprised by how not-awful it was! It was about 40 mins too long (most of which could have been trimmed from the first part), but other than than that I quite enjoyed it.

It did require fairly close concentration, and I didn’t recognize some of the the voices until I went back and read the cast but the general principle and casting 5,6, and 7 as different characters worked well in my opinion - their voices were distinctive enough to realize what was going on. Romana and Leela were great together (makes me want to listen to Gallifrey), and I thought the ending worked well - setup for what will presumably be the next few 8 main range stories.

I’d give it a solid 4/5 - a shame it comes after Omega (4.5/5), Davros (5/5), and Master (4.5/5), otherwise it would seem even better in my memory!

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Yeees! Join us! Join the Gallifrey Brigade! You won’t regret it! And it will make you an even better fan, a proper fan! It will change your life for the better!

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Flyyy my pretties, fly!!! Make everyone into Gallifrey fans muhahahahah

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A complete and total mess… that I still admire for its ambition. I’m a bit of a sucker for Alice In Wonderland riffs, and there’s a lot of other bits and pieces to the larger plot that I find quite fascinating (Offbrand DisneyWorld civil war? Yes please!). I’ve listened to it the once, so maybe it becomes more legible on relistening (feel free to laugh at the naivete of that statement at your leisure), but for right now, I quite like it for the mess it is.

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“If a TARDIS is infected with anti-time, it could infect the entire universe, back and forth.” Wonder if this is where RTD got the idea for Sutekh planting Susan Twist across time and space?

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How are there only two quotes for this story on the guide?

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It’s an audio story which makes it much harder to get quotes because there’s no transcript.

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A very helpful person did write up a transcript for Zagreus (and many other MR audios) at some point! You can find them if you search on the Internet Archive.

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Can confirm that the script is on the IA, and it appears to be the official one from The Audio Scripts Vol. 4, with Gary Russell’s introduction begging people not to blame Alan Barnes for it and everything.

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The biggest load of piffle…

Zagreus is a beast. A long, lore-heavy, confusing beast. It was, for a long time, Big Finish’s longest release before being supplanted by UNIT: Dominion. Now, in the age of boxsets, I have no idea which is the longest story. This is a multi-Doctor story, kind of. Drenched in Alice in Wonderland, and Gallifreyan lore, and just tons of amazing and intriguing concepts.

The Divergence as described here is fascinating. Unfortunately, I don’t really remember what become of the species/concept in later stories. We get three segments telling about the Divergence: a past, present and future. But because of the nature of the stories, they’re infused with Doctors and companions. I do love that it allowed the actors to play against type. I think the “present” (Fifth Doctor) segment is my favorite and the one I’d most like to see expanded on. It’s a Forge story recounting the final fate of Project: Dionysus, where a Forge device accidentally tears a hole in reality before a Cuban spy blows it all up. I’d love to see this fleshed out more as its own thing separate from the overall Zagreus arc.

The other two segments are good too. The “past” (Sixth Doctor) segment is interesting as shows the intermediate period before Gallifrey’s sovereignty is solidified. It touches on the war with the Great Vampires, the Sisterhood of Karn appears to still have a presence on Gallifrey and Rassilon is still solidifying his power base. The “future” (Seventh Doctor) segment is just bonkers. I get that it’s riffing on Disney with the animatronics and the founder on ice. But looking at it today, it also has a bit of a Five Nights at Freddy’s feel to it.

The Gallifrey stuff is great, hearing the first meeting of Romana and Leela was great. Before this relisten, I’d been racking my brain trying to remember where Brax showed up. Now I know. Would’ve loved if he’d had a bigger part, but it was still a good part he did have. Yes, this is a monster of a story, but it’s a lot of fun. No, I don’t recommend someone try it as their first story and with little to no Classic Who under their belt. I do however, think this gets better on a relisten (or two or three or…). I thinks it works better when you know what you’re getting into, when you’ve got all the previous Eight/Charley stories under your belt, when you’re aware of the basic plot beats and can thus enjoy all the lore and little easter eggs. Zagreus isn’t a masterpiece by any metric. It’s long, dense, and filled to bursting with obscure lore. That said, it’s still a lot of fun.

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I really tried to listen to this story but i just gave up midway,i couldnt tell what was going on so i never finished it.

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