What is your most controversial opinion?

General / off topic
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What I see is that the Time War has raged across time and space to such an extent that this unspeakable action of a double genocide is the only solution with the rest of the Universe on the receiving end of just such a trolley problem. That The Doctor of all people arrive to that conclusion is terrible. And his punishment for using the Moment is to live on knowing what he has caused in order to bring peace to the rest of the Universe.

And I think that is so prevalent in Doctors 9 - 11. The 9th Doctor’s emotional response to meeting a Dalek in series 1, and his elation when “Everybody Lives!”. The 10th Doctor living with the Survivor’s guilt until he snaps completely and goes Time Lord Victorious. And the 11th Doctor being torn apart about how he killed his own people.

And I don’t think it says those things about grief at all, the Doctor is presented with hope at the end, and gives him a purpose again. He learns that he didn’t commit a genocide on his own people, that he discovered that alternative solution to the trolley problem.

And the main purpose of fiction is at the end of the day to entertain, and what is a compelling narrative doesn’t necessarily translate into real life situations.

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Saying that “fiction’s main purpose is to entertain” undermines literary fiction. Whether you like it or not, every story has a message. Every story has meaning. The curtains are not just blue.

I am very happy that DotD recontextualizes those moments in a meaningful way for you. It does not do that for me.

The resolution feels juvenile. I sort of just wish that Moffat would have gone back to square one and rewritten the entire thing.

Once again - I do not actually care if other people like this story. This story does not do anything that legitimately offends me. It’s Doctor Who. It’s not the most important literature of our generation, but that doesn’t mean I’m not going to criticize it when I think it’s written badly. I don’t think anything deserves to be written badly.

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I’m not saying that entertainment is the sole purpose of fiction. And every story can be attributed meaning, but that will vary in the eyes of the beholder who experiences the story, that might be different to any messages the writer intended.
If a television programme such as Doctor Who doesn’t provide a level of entertainment, it is very likely to be axed.

Good example of a controversial opinion :slightly_smiling_face:

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My bad! You phrased that a bit funny.

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Sorry about that, got a bit of a headache, and at the end of the day English isn’t my first language :slightly_smiling_face:

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The only thing I’d add here is that the Ninth Doctor says in Dalek “I watched it happen - I made it happen” so it was written since Series 1 that the Doctor was the person with blood on their hands. So you have RTD to blame for that part, not Moffat.

I think Day of the Doctor is one of the greatest things we have ever had in the Whoniverse and I’m so glad it exists!

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One of these spots where it’s really good that we had Christopher Eccleston as 9. According to the TARDIS wiki, the Doctor’s interaction with the Dalek was written as mocking and flippant, and Eccleston was the one adding all the rage and pain to the performance. Apparently Robert Shearman was initially miffed, then delighted when he realised how well it worked.

There’s lots of information in that entry, too…

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I mean I guess? But I would require more context clues to pin the blame on the Doctor. I still think that conceptually, that’s a stupid idea.

I’m glad someone likes it. I mean no offense, I am just a hater.

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Coming over here from the Book Club thread for Feast of the Drowned with what I believe might be an incredibly spicy take;

Comparing The Doctor’s relationships with companions to paedophilia is stupid, but actually some of The Doctor’s behaviour towards companions like Rose and Amy could absolutely be interpreted as the actions of someone with Borderline Personality Disorder or other such Cluster-B symptoms (and I’m saying this as someone who has those things and from my own experience of the symptoms when it comes to relationships.)

Love bombing, having a “favourite person”, the manipulative nature, even the sort of nature of “switching”, companions are the Best People in the entire world until they make mistakes that render them into “stupid apes” again. And the pattern sort of continues - 12 is the only one I think who did any actual work to break this cycle, and unfortunately he was only really able to do that once he met Bill, as Clara was basically just as bad as The Doctor had been.

Thirteen does it too, almost just in the opposite direction.

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Where did you read that bit about paedophilia? I don’t remember reading that in that thread? Or any other place for that matter…

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I didn’t, we had been having a conversation about it in the discord a short while ago, but the book itself just had a couple of Ten/Rose interactions that brought it to the front of my mind.

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Being slightly nitpicky here with some of my disagreements but:

We’ve seen Arcadia, Gallifrey’s second biggest city, and The Capitol, the biggest city and the one we see most frequently. (admittedly two isn’t a lot, but it’s something)

Not exactly a nation, but we see The Sisterhood of Karn who are a separate gallifreyan sect.

It’s not really been between the lines in the series, @shauny mentioned Dalek already, but to give a couple more quotes from non-Moffat episodes:

The Parting of the Ways (RTD)

EMPEROR: You destroyed us, Doctor. The Dalek race died in your inferno, but my ship survived, falling through time, crippled but alive.

The End of Time: Part Two (RTD)

PARTISAN: (a woman) But we know his intention. He still possesses the Moment, and he’ll use it to destroy Daleks and Time Lords alike.

The Doctor’s Wife (Gaiman

HOUSE: Fear me. I’ve killed hundreds of Time Lords.
DOCTOR: Fear me. I’ve killed all of them.

I also think that the doctor being the one who wiped out the Time Lords and The Daleks makes 9’s decision in The Parting of the Ways so much more impactful. It’s not just that he’s got survivor’s guilt, it’s that he’s been in this place before, he’s made the other decision, and he’s seen that it was the wrong one.

In the case of The Time War though, the people tying everyone to the tracks were the people he killed, and it was the only way that he could find to remove everyone from ever tying people to tracks ever again.

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Ah gotcha :k9: :k9: :k9:

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These are fairly good in-universe explanations. I had a hunch that Karn was Gallifreyan, but I haven’t actually read that much up on them - Thank you for pointing those 3 things out.

Thing is, I think conceptually, it was just a bad idea. I don’t like the Doctor being the most important Time Lord in the history of ever, and putting the decision to blow up a damn planet on their shoulders makes them so. Additionally, it feels… Very out of character? I feel like they would just give up and run away if they couldn’t solve the issue. That would still result in a lot of internal turmoil. (It’s how I have read Eccelston since I first saw the dang show.)

I don’t know. I had a more coherent version of my little paragraph rant, but the website ate it upon me opening a different tab. I also wrote that thing very early in the morning. I think my argument boils down to - I don’t really care about the details of the time war, I got a sense of the Doctor’s role from context clues, and what we got I thought was stupid right down to the first draft version. I feel like the thought proccess in the writer’s room was “bigger is better”, but often times in writing, I disagree.

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That’s absolutely fair, I do get where you’re coming from, I personally don’t mind The Doctor being important because of The Time War because it’s a choice he made, what he’s done made him important, not who he is (like Timeless Child).

As for feeling like he would just up and run away, honestly this is why I feel we should get that McGann miniseries, showing him trying to run from the Time War and help where he can, it’s shown that’s what he’s doing in Night of The Doctor before the crash in that and what leads up to it makes him feel he can’t back out of the war anymore, but I definitely want to see more of it. I think Big Finish’s Time War series tries to do a bit of this, but not quite fully this from what I’ve heard about it.

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I think I would hate DOTD less if we got better explanation as to what led up to the decision being made. Still don’t think I’d like it, but it wouldn’t be bottom tier. I haven’t heard any of this series, maybe it’ll help?

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The sisterhood live on an entirely separate planet, so I think maybe it’s more accurate to consider them something of a diaspora?

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Saw Incherton Incident has a 2.5 average so I guess my new controversial take is it’s a solid 4/5?

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Well apparently not counting Wilf as a companion is controversial… :smirk:

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Mine is simple and very controversial I reckon hahah

Chibnall era? Ahead of its time :face_with_peeking_eye:

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