The Fifteenth Doctor retrospective thread

Oh I LOVE Moffat. The episode? Meh. One of the few eps ever to really leave me feeling weird? Far too much was revealed in the trailers and promo lead-up, and Joy was practically absent for so much despite the marketing promoting Nicola so much.

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I was also relatively meh on Moffat episodes this season. Boom for me was supremely underwhelming. I know they built a set and everything but it felt like the most “shot on a green” screen thing I’d seen in a while, sort of like a modern Underworld. Joy to the World I really don’t remember liking that much either, but in the sort of way where it’s just a shape that I don’t enjoy in the memory. Anita cropping up in The Reality War was a welcome surprise, and I liked her character there, so I think probably the couplet pays off in the end. There’s also clearly a lot of Moff in this season stylistically. The whole mystery of Ruby is a Moff-type enigma plot, except Moff could only barely pull those plots off half the time and he actually thinks really hard about his scripts instead of just doing a bananagrams made out of pictures of actors from the 2005 revival, using a Spirograph to add explosions to it and saying go (no shush we’re being cruel).

The show has obviously modernized and learned from its past, but it appears to simply not bother with utilizing much of it with any thought. It is a toybox, gleefully but haphazardly rummaged through, with little care as to the state of the toy-room floor once play is done, because the next game will be different anyway.

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Leela :handshake: Belinda: two wonderful actresses giving it their all and breathing life into characters that are written shakily at best who deserved a vastly better ending than they got

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Fair enough - I loved it personally. In an era with a lot of supernatural and fantasy gubbins, it was one of a handful of episodes to feel very “Doctor Who” to me. I loved the very sci-fi plot, the time hotel, and flitting around between different periods of history. I also really enjoyed Anita and Trev as the substitute companions, and found them far more compelling than Joy as characters, so I wasn’t really bothered the latter was barely in the episode! I think the Anita subplot is a rare example of this era attempting to focus on the importance of everyday life and actually succeeding - the Doctor’s friendship with Anita is utterly charming and really heartfelt, and the complete opposite of the very artificial attempts to make us care about Poppy in The Reality War, IMO.

This is also an extremely rare piece of media to make me cry on first viewing (due to personal things, which obviously won’t apply to all viewers), so it holds a soft spot from me for that. Plus, it has dinosaurs! :laughing: :t_rex: :sauropod:

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From an episode six years from now, Arc Of Infinity style: “And what news of my old companion, Belinda!” “Oh, she’s fine…” (voices trail off as they walk away, she’s never mentioned again)

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This is one of my main critiques against him, and it’s the same I originally had against Thirteen. I personally am not into hyperactive characters, so when we got another Doctor who was easily excitable, giddy, and trendy, I was immediately disappointed. I said before that, long before his characterization was revealed, I’d hoped he would be serious and arrogant in his demeanor, a la Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Instead I felt like I was watching some Instagram-famous version of the Doctor. I do like Thirteen now, so I’ll probably end up liking Fifteen given time, but Fifteen will always have a sour spot for me. Fugitive was more aligned with what I wanted, and she’s basically lost her chance to have her own broadcast era.

Fifteen never came across as alien to me, but that’s something I can say about many of the New Who Doctors. They act and (for some of them) dress like regular people, and that’s just not what I’m into as far as characterization is concerned.

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This is a really interesting thing to think about right now, a few days after his era wrapped, and it will be an even more interesting question in 5 or 10 years, who knows what it’ll seem like once we’re all used to what this era is and contains and we aren’t expending as much energy wishing it would tilt, like reality, a few degrees this way or that.

First thing to say is that, to me, Ncuti was fantastic, I liked him from his initial promo photos (that smile!), I liked him leaping in all energetic guns blazing in The Giggle, and I genuinely think he did throw every emotional tool in his kit at these scripts, no one can say he didn’t give it everything he had. And yet, for some of S1 I wasn’t sure I recognized him as the character The Doctor, even as I liked having him as the lead of the TV program Doctor Who. There are many great moments in his S1, especially that famously first day on set freakout at the end of Dot & Bubble (which in the end is I guess my full favorite Ncuti story, because the script is great, even though he and Ruby are barely in it). S2 he felt like he’d clicked into some new mode, almost like the whole production felt to me in Capaldi’s second series, there was a sense of “right, buckle down, focus, we’re gonna really do a good one here.” And I felt that intention all the way until the reshoots begin and any plans laid from S1 and 2 went up in smoke.

It is impossible not to note that his era, despite being so short, has I think the most Doctor-lite episodes of any era? I haven’t actually counted, but they felt very common. As somebody pointed out above, those ARE great episodes though, and they are the only ones where Ruby Sunday clicks into full gear for me as a character. Millie is clearly a phenomenal talent, but there’s something wrong in the Ruby/15 chemistry that I don’t know how to quantify, and only when she is given the prime position does she absolutely burst to life. 73 Yards & Lucky Day would be in my Top 5 of this era too.

So it’s just very hard to say right now what this all was or to sum it up, because it is now a truncated timeline that won’t finish with the face it was supposed to, if any of these threads are ever picked up again.

I did not hate the era at all, but I don’t love the feeling of this particular Doctor being messed with by business or behind the scenes over caution or by arrogantly poor finales, to the point where he Colin Baker’d himself out at two years! What on earth was going on over there at Bad Wolf, and will we ever really know? Do we want to? And how sad is it to have to spend SOME time talking about the production of the show when you just want to talk about how great this or that episode or moment was.

Main thing to say: it is very clear that Ncuti, Millie, and Varada are all destined for even bigger things than they’ve already achieved, they are all so talented and watchable, they’ll be around for a while. With the Disney money, three great lead actors, a new production facility, all the 60th anniversary wind in their sails, this should not have fallen apart like this.

I don’t think Disney was ultimately a good thing for the show (although a fully positive thing to say is that the production design and costume design and sound is FANTASTIC in this era, kind of uniformly). And I knew it in my bones when it was announced, but RTD should never have come back to run it. Write it? Fine, he IS one of the best to ever do it, no matter RTD2. But not run it. The show should NEVER go back, not to previous logos, or to previous showrunners, or to previous Doctors honestly.

Though having said that, I am and will be on board for BP should she in fact turn out to be playing The Doc, because she’s amazing, she absolutely could crush it.

I did wish we’d seen more of the long leather trench, that was such a sick jacket.

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Oh my god this logo is so bad. They actually made it worse than the original by making it look like a plastic badge.

Russell said in DWM “Mostly we brought it back because we liked it,” and you know what… ■■■■ you, Russell. This show shouldn’t be about what you liked as a child fifty goddamn years ago.

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Yesssss. SING IT LOUDER SO RUSTY CAN HEAR YOU haha.

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Well, let’s go! I love 15, I believe he has become my favorite doctor, partly because of the connection I created with his very humanized side, this is quite personal to me, but I feel really happy to have such a… cheerful doctor, happy to show himself to others, wear colorful clothes, go to clubs and things like that. So I believe I am already starting the Gatwa era with great joy because I am already here for this doctor! The stories… I consider the church on Ruby Road the first story of the Gatwa era, and honestly, I don’t like it that much, but I still believe it is a decent presentation, I like to see Ruby’s life. I go against everything and everyone and admit that I love Space Babies! It is the moment when this doctor wins me over thanks to his interaction with the space babies. I end up stumbling on Devil Chords, this story really doesn’t appeal to me, the only thing that interests me is Jinkx Monsoon’s SPLENDID performance. From Boom to Rogue I love all the stories, without exception, I find each one very creative and original, in addition to all being spectacular in terms of visuals. The effects may not be the best but the aesthetics are beautiful. The two-part ending is too boring for me. But I don’t hate Ruby’s story solution, I actually like it, except for the damn sign, that killed me Russell, my biggest problem is with Sutekh and his use, besides I think the story solution was very… urgh

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The second season is MUCH BETTER, I don’t think Robots Revolution is that great, but guys, they were incredible sequence from Lux to Interstellar Song Contest, only to fail at the end again lol. I loved Belinda in the first three episodes, but I hated the ending, god they killed her. I feel like even Ruby was poorly concluded, Jesus, 15 treated her weirdly in the final minutes, it gave me agony, in fact, 15 was also kind of destroyed in part of that ending, jesus what a mess. But I liked the moment of regeneration itself, I’ll never get over 15’s departure, I’m still mourning it.

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I really had a lot of fun with Fifteen’s era! I recall liking the middle of each season much more than the endcaps (including the Specials), but even those were at least decent. I’ve been trying to decide which season I enjoyed more, and I honestly think it’s a tossup, because ‘The Devil’s Chord’ through ‘The Legend of Ruby Sunday’ is about as good a run as ‘Lux’ through ‘Wish World’ to me. I’m not rating the stories on the site yet, though, because I’ve only seen them once, and I’d rather apply a more measured and nuanced eye to them as I’m currently doing with all the previous eras.

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Loving all the tier lists, here’s mine at present:

It’ll probably all change when I actually do a rewatch of Fifteen’s era down the line!

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Anyone else notice that the first story for Ncuti started with a woman in a black cloak leaving a baby out of love, and the last story started with a woman in a red cloak stealing a baby for her own ambitions?

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I enjoyed season 1 more than season 2, as much I’m not a fan of a lot of the plot reveals in the two part finale I do remember liking both those episodes more on my first watch than how I felt after sitting with my thoughts for awhile. Ruby is given A character arc and one that is for the most part quite satisfying. The Church on Ruby Road, Dot and Bubble, and 73 Yards are all incredible standouts from that season as well. It still felt fresh and exciting and I was still really invested in the God’s storyline.

Season two, while having still some quite good stand alone episodes for me does fall apart tremendously by knowing where it all went, and I don’t like Joy to the World that much when compared to the first Christmas special.

So a mixed era not even lumping in the 60th anniversary specials which by and large I enjoyed all three. So more positives than negatives at least for me. I don’t want to get too bogged down in the negative at this point.

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My average rating for season 1 — 7.14/10 — is higher than for season 2 — 6.75/10! Not counting specials.

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Man, Ncuti is such a strong actor, even in a lot of the weaker episodes, he REALLY carries it for me.

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