If it makes a difference Culber doesn’t stay dead. But yeah, I remember how “bury the gays” it was at first.
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I’d rather gathered, and I am planning on eventually continuing (and yeah, that’s very much how it came off at the time). My feelings about Discovery tend to mean that I’m fairly likely to watch Voyager season 4-7 & DS9 seasons 2-7 before I return to it, though, as both shows are also on the rewatch list and I enjoy them more.
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Funny, I’d re-watch Discovery before I’d re-watch Voyager.
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Alright we’ve gone too far, I won’t accept anyone slandering the good name of Voyager /j
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Whereas my immediate reaction to the first two episodes of Discovery was to rewatch a half dozen episodes of Voyager before continuing…
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Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Voyager is bad exactly, but it really didn’t live up to the premise it was created as. The idea of this ship, stranded in space, far from home, with two halves of the crew who hate what the other stands for (Starfleet and Maquis), having to work together and embark on a dangerous journey to get back home, with no support other than from the peoples they meet along the way is a solid premise with a lot of potential.
However, the conflict is resolved in merely a couple episodes and hardly ever comes up or is relevant again. They start with things like a limit on photon torpedoes because they can’t make more, rationing replicator use because they only have so much in their power reserves, things like that which make it really seem like they’re stuck, but they pretty much abandon that fairly early on, and overshoot that torpedo limit by a lot over the course of the series with no explanation as to how they’re getting more (funny video out there showing every torpedo fired and keeping a tally). Basically nothing has any lasting consequences from week to week, and the ship and crew are just fine by the time of next episode, when every single thing should have an impact in their situation when they aren’t next to the nearest Federation starbase for repairs and resupply. You keep seeing familiar races popping up which also takes me out of this idea that they are so far from home, and that’s before we even get into the overuse of and dilution of the threat of the Borg.
I think for the most part Voyager’s characters are rather uninteresting unless they’re named Seven of Nine or The Doctor, with honorable mentions to Kathryn Janeway or Tuvok. The writing is wildly inconsistent, both from episode to episode, and sometimes within the same character (Janeway is all over the place). This show which should have been a much more continuous story was reduced to essentially just being TNG in the Delta Quadrant, but without the cast or writing to back it up that TNG had. Voyager is my least favorite, which I’ve said before, but I don’t think I gave a breakdown as to why.
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How does the Trek EU work?
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Yeah, I agree with this. I was expecting something more than what we got. More conflict but it quickly just felt like TNG with less interesting characters.
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The shows and films are canon. The rest is not. Doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy or read them and such, but just that it isn’t like Doctor Who which doesn’t really have canon.
So that’s:
The Original Series
The Animated Series
The Motion Picture
The Wrath of Khan
The Search for Spock
The Voyage Home
The Final Frontier
The Undiscovered Country
The Next Generation
Generations
First Contact
Insurrection
Nemesis
Deep Space Nine
Voyager
Enterprise
Star Trek (2009)
Star Trek Into Darkness
Star Trek Beyond
Discovery
Short Treks
Picard
Lower Decks
Prodigy
Strange New Worlds
Section 31
Starfleet Academy (upcoming)
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Not arguing on them constantly hitting the reset button on Voyager, as that bothers me, too. (Especially when the Doctor got factory reset and was back to normal next episode.) And they definitely could have done more with the premise.
I do feel like I like more of the cast then you do, though there are certainly characters like Kim and Chakotay…
(Kim would have been more interesting if they’d actually kept to the original premise of “Favorite Son”, or if they’d made more of the original Kim dying and the new one being from an alternate universe.)
When it’s good, I enjoy it, though. When it’s bad, it’s, well, Elogium…
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Controversial opinion, but Voyager and Discovery are probably my favourite Star Treks (honourable mention to DS9).
Which is why it confuses me that most people dislike those two!
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I say Deep Space Nine is the best of the lot, and probably will never be bettered. Just the most consistent writing, a very coherent storyline, all of the characters are well defined, developed, and performed by the cast. Honestly the nearest to perfection Star Trek ever got. Shame about those mirror universe episodes.
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I really liked the DS9 main plot, but just didn’t gel with the characters as much (I literally can’t tell you any of their names except Sisko, Quark, and Odo)
Whereas I love most of the characters in the other shows (ok not Kes. I really disliked Kes)
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Sounds like you need a refresher, because not remembering Kira Nerys, Nog, Gul Dukat, Kai Winn, and biggest of all, Garak, is a certified crime. Julian Bashir, Miles O’Brien, Weyoun, Rom, Dax, Worf joins in Season 4, Martok, they’re all great too.
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DS9 is on my rewatch list, too. I rewatched the first season a while ago, just got sidetracked afterwards.
Mind you, this scene pissed me off:
The Forsaken
SISKO: Lwaxana Troi the Ambassador?
ODO: That’s her. There was a minor incident at the bar that I helped her with, and now she’s grateful.
SISKO: What’s the problem?
ODO: The manner in which she expresses her gratitude. To be honest, Commander, she seems interested in me.
SISKO: What’s wrong with that?
ODO: She’s extremely aggressive.
SISKO: I see. So, she’s after you.
ODO: Like a Wanoni tracehound.
SISKO: Have you thought of letting her catch you?
ODO: Sir?
SISKO: A little romance, Odo.
ODO: I have six pylons that need a complete security sweep. I don’t have time for romantic interludes. Frankly, in my humble opinion, most of you humanoids spend far too much time on your respective mating rituals.
SISKO: It does help the procreation of one’s species.
ODO: Procreation does not require changing how you smell, or writing bad poetry, or sacrificing various plants to serve as tokens of affection. In any event, it’s all irrelevant to me.
SISKO: I’m sorry to hear that.
ODO: I would appreciate it if you would do something about this woman.
SISKO: Me?
ODO: Just tell her to leave me alone.
SISKO: Constable, you can handle thieves and killers but not one Betazoid woman?
ODO: I understand thieves and killers. I don’t understand her.
SISKO: I can’t help you, Odo.
ODO: I’m just trying to avoid a diplomatic incident. I don’t want to insult the Ambassador.
SISKO: A reasonable concern. I suggest you handle the matter with great delicacy.
ODO: I don’t handle delicacy very well.
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Oh & lets not forget -
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Yeah, that was a questionable scene, in a rather questionable episode for the most part. I did like the part where Lwaxana finally starts to understand boundaries and the two of them became friends, but that particular moment with Sisko is a bit yikes. Even 90s Trek can feel of its time, and the idea of men getting sexually harassed was often treated as a non-issue in things back then and before.
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Yeah, between Sisko’s very questionable response to a member of his staff being sexually harassed, and what sounded to me like Odo telling Sisko he is asexual, and Sisko basically going “I’m sorry to hear that”…
I am good with Odo and Lwaxana becoming friends.
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For the most part she’s a character I like in her few DS9 appearances, but only tolerate sometimes in TNG.
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Adam just uploaded a fascinating video where he goes over the different models used in Star Trek.
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