Episode Discussion: The Interstellar Song Contest

There isn’t anything I massively disagree with here, just with the exception that I think it’s being a bit too kind to the episode to suggest it’s deep enough to do that, when depicting the other side it uses a sledgehammer. And if it’s like a sledgehammer with depicting one side but uses subtlety with the other, then it feels like the episode is taking sides.

It isn’t, I know full well that’s not the intention, but it’s how it comes across to me with it’s, like Lucky Day, immaturity in dealing with a topic it maybe should never have attempted.

The real world did slightly overtake when this was presumably originally pitched or written but it’s unfortunately the lens I had to view the episode through. With the parallels to Palestine, the exaggerated number of 3 trillion to overtly paint Kid as a monster becomes an obstacle in inviting you to imagine the plight of Hellia. We get it through Wynn and Cora but because there is no battering ram on the other side of the coin like there is with Kid, its positive message (and I agree it’s shooting for one) doesn’t quite come off for me because the bungling of the conceit ends up leaving a horrid taste in my mouth.

I don’t baulk at an insidious messaging behind the episode, but I do definitely despair at its seeming naivety.

I do love the idea of Cora’s methods proving more fruitful than Kid’s, I do. I really, I really do. It’s one of the stronger aspects and in an episode which I felt had handled Kid far more maturely I think it could have boosted this episode to being one of the best of the season, maybe the era. The message would have pierced through like a thunderbolt.

And there’s a slither of Cora outlining why Kid is called Kid which landed very well. But, like I say, the threat to 3 trillion people is an incomprehensibly high number which ends up feeling like a broad stroke the script makes to justify the Doctor calling him ‘filthy’, something which again doesn’t work at all for me given the real life parallels I cannot unsee.

As Delta says, this is Doctor Who so it’s really just meant to be a space adventure at its heart. But it can and has been more than that when making itself an allegory for real world and political issues. Doing a story like this invites the same analysis as allegory and more than just ‘space adventure’. It’s also a show with a social conscience as one of its greatest strengths and, for one that’s meant to be quite politically switched on, it isn’t half messing up a lot of its messaging recently, at least to me. It’s always well-intentioned these days, that’s not something I question, but it just messes up a bit too much.

Like, at no point do I think this episode is condoning Israel whatsoever, that’s not my issue, but I definitely think it attempted something it didn’t quite have the maturity or chops to pull off and so, unless it absolutely can, I think it needs to leave thin-ice topics well alone. Because it just crashes through the ice.

It also doesn’t help that Kid is dealt with really by not long after the half hour mark so no wonder he isn’t as well drawn as he could be. And no wonder why I feel like his character and motivations were too simplistic a take for what a story like this required.

The ending representing that the corporation can’t just be taken down would work so much better for me if Kid hadn’t been so cartoonishly boo-hiss. It invites deeper analysis for one side and offers up a caricature for the other and that isn’t it for me, not at all.

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The way the episode treated Eurovision in general felt… familiar. It’s written from the perspective of someone who appreciates the joy they get from the experience, and the comfort that brings, while also reckoning with the larger political picture that it’s part of.

Like… being a fan of Buffy The Vampire Slayer, knowing the creator’s actions, or liking DW Series 1, knowing the production turmoil and Eccleston getting blackballed for speaking out about it. Hell, it even reminds me of John Oliver discussing FIFA on Last Week Tonight. It’s difficult to balance those two sides, where this thing you love has some… let’s say troubling background to it. “You can’t unlearn how the sausage is made”, etc.

I agree that the attempt at both-sides-ing runs into some issues, but at the very least, I get why it turned out the way it did.

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As always, I can’t really disagree with anything you’ve said but have to come back to my gut instinct that the politics of the show are never going to bother me (unless they were to suddenly pivot to horrific right-wing nonsense). Kerblam upsets so many people but I just can’t muster any emotion at how ‘Space Amazon’ are depicted.

I think I just manage to separate the real world from Doctor Who. I’m not saying anyone else should nor that anyone shouldn’t feel bothered by whatever messy message they may derive from the show, just that that’s how I watch the show.

But you make a really good point about Kid. I actually thought, as a villain, he was a bit half-baked and I actually think Freddie Fox was the weakest link in the cast.

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The politics of the show don’t really bother me so much either in that I always know where they’re coming from (or at least heavily suspect). Agreeing with the political outlook of the show these days means I always feel like whatever they’re doing comes from a good place.

I just get a little tense when I feel like the messaging gets bungled. Partly out of nervousness that it can be both wilfully misconstrued and legitimately misunderstood.

But I never, ever feel like I’m questioning what the show and its makers actually feel or think or mean.

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This is the bit that makes me cross. People online seem determined to wilfully twist anything put on screen that doesn’t precisely align with their personal politics. There is already a particularly egregious review of this episode on TARDIS Guide which is just there to score points against the show from a position of arrogant self-righteousness.

I have political views, of course I do, but I would never presume that a) they’re all actually ‘correct’ and b) am always open to being educated and changing my world view. Sometimes a show, even Doctor Who, can make me think about myself - Dot and Bubble did that - but I would never, ever expect the show to always agree with what I think about things.

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Must admit, I went looking for what review this could be, think I found it.

I went in thinking maybe you’d been a tad unkind and people can review with their own thoughts but I must admit I wasn’t quite prepared for it and laughed out loud so if anything that’s a good start to the morning.

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I honestly prefer it when the show gets political (and not as a matter of subtext, but “this is a vital aspect of the story we’re telling”), even if I disagree with the specifics, because at least that means it’s about something. I like stories that give me things to think about, possibly even more so than if they entertain me in the moment, and while I have had some severe disagreements with other episodes (e.g. The Dominators), I still prefer a negative reaction to… well, no reaction.

I understand that not everyone gets into media for those reasons, but I can only speak for myself here, and I am nothing if not a willing overthinker of things, lol

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Goes review hunting…

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She genuinely stole the show immediately!

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I hope the Murray Gold haters here have finally eaten their words after this absolute banger

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No. lol

Post must be at least 12 loud music cues long

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I absolutely understand where you’re coming from, to be clear this isn’t me saying the politics of the episode are flawless, I think there’s a lot to be said positively about it, but I can still understand why people have a problem with it. I just don’t think the politics of the episode are as bad as I’ve seen a lot of people saying they are, and even seeing the comparisons myself, I think it’s handled at a minimum pretty well. Not necessarily spectacularly (it’s no Oxygen), but it’s still done pretty well, and it in no way gets in the way of the episode for me at all, I’ve rated it a solid 8/10.

Obviously not saying you do, but I’ve seen multiple people say the episode is, and quoting here, dogshit, based purely on the politics of the story, or at least how they perceive the politics. (Something you’ve seen with the review Delta pointed you towards)

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Wish we’d gotten more nonsense songs, personally…

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Bro hears the best song ever made and still is mad, unbelievable

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I would’ve demanded The Ketchup Song for similar reasons

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For me what gives it a pass is that the politics easily could have been worse, and I think there’s a genuine good faith attempt. I just think everything with Kid needed another draft or set of eyes, and that even if The Doctor doesn’t fight The Corporation he should have at least criticised them at some point. But I think the episode genuinely did try and unfortunately just was messy in many ways

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Thinking about it, I think Belinda was the one who got most of the story about what the corporation did, at a point she wasn’t with the Doctor. I’m not sure he heard any more of it then the one line about “revenge against the corporation” at a point where he was mostly focused on his own revenge…

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Yeah true! I do still think it coulda been better handled though, and they got even a slap on the wrist or something.

My workmate earlier said they felt like they watched propaganda at lunch so this will be a “fun” discussion considering my messy thoughts on this :eyes:

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I still don’t know which one @deltaandthebannermen is referring to, there are a lot :sob:

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Yeah I’m now wondering too after scrolling down. The first one I came across made me laugh so much I thought it must be that one…

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