One new rule I’ve recently adopted is that the first time a podcast begs me for money then I’m done with it. I’m not doing Patreon or buying anyone a coffee. That’s because I prefer podcasts that are made with a very clear love for the subject matter rather than as a business. I can tell when a podcast is a labour of love, and when that is the case I don’t mind if it is being recorded in a kitchen on a clapped-out laptop, I’ll take that over a million professionally produced yet soulless money-grabbing podcasts.
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I feel like it depends. I think that some stuff needs work and time, and then it can be fair to support them. There is a lot of work involved in doing a podcast, and I think that great work deserves some support. Most podcasts lose money even if they get money through Patreon. Do you feel the same about ads?
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Chiming in to say I think there’s also a difference between begging for money and just offering extra content. One of the podcasts I listen to has a Patreon, and of course they plug it now and again (it never feels forced though, and is usually an off-hand mention), but they offer bonus commentaries, reviews, and extra content for a very low price. I think that’s worth it. But if a podcast continually seemed like it was begging for money and I didn’t feel the reward was worth it, I probably wouldn’t bother (and might eventually give up on the podcast if the ads/begging were becoming intrusive). It’s all a matter of how it’s handled, IMO, and what they’re offering.
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It is the same with this site. I know that @shauny does this out of love and that he loses money, but he is also offering a great product that I am happy to pay for. I am also in a financial situation where I have the money to do so. I really like Patreon as a way of supporting things I like.
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Full disclosure, I’ve made a couple of podcasts in the past so I know how much work goes into it. The thing is though, it was a hobby, and I never felt the need to charge anyone. The only support I needed was someone leaving a comment to say that they enjoyed listening to what I had to say.
I don’t understand the losing money thing, Tian, but that’s probably me being a bit thick. On the subject of ads, thought, they can be extremely annoying for the listener. The podcaster is midway through a sentence and suddenly someone is asking if you’ve made a will, thought about a funeral plan or need a mobility scooter (I’m 62, and all the targeted advertising is off the you are going to die soon variety). However, sometimes that’s the price of using the platform and the podcaster and the listener are stuck with it. I’m also fine with a podcaster taking a sponsorship deal. I mean, if Walker’s Crisps or someone approached you and said they’d give you a lot of money if you’d advertise them once an episode then you’d be mad to turn that down.
Koquillion mentioned paying for bonus episodes and content. Personally, I don’t like that kind of thing either, because it penalises the listeners who just don’t have the disposable income to spare.
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I agree with Tian and Koquillon here! It’s fine to mention Patreon and give people a chance to support the podcast if they want to—especially if that means they can get extra or ensure the continued existence of the podcast. A lot of the time the podcaster still puts loads of their own time and resources into making the podcast, and often at a loss.
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I am NOT discussing TARDIS Guide or any other website. That’s a whole different matter. Let’s not get into false equivalency, please. I want to make it very clear that I am talking about podcasts only.
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I just don’t personally see the issue with giving a quick shout out at the start of the podcast that you have a donation link, the podcast is still a labour of love, it let’s people show appreciation by chucking a few bucks in, and it can help improve the podcast, whether that means buying better equipment, or even buying podcast snacks. There is a wide ocean of nuance between grassroots small time labour of love podcasts, and the souless corporate money mill podcasts.
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I don’t see why that difference matters. How is a podcast “money-grabbing” for having a patreon, but this place isn’t?
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I really don’t understand this. I will use the only podcast I am a Patreon of as an example. It is called DIF-podden, a podcast about my favourite football team. They make at least two episodes per match (one before and one after) and are the best source for news around my team. They could easily get money by pairing with a betting company but choose not to because it is something that harms people. Instead, they finance it by having a Patreon. To me, this shows more integrity and heart than by doing the opposite.
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You know, it’s nice when someone can produce high quality content without needing money for it, and are getting enough money from other places and have enough free time to be able to do things for free.
But that’s not a privilege a lot of people have. Most people have a lot of expenses, people asking them for money in order to live someplace and put all their stuff there, asking them for money for food and internet and so on, and have to get that one way or another.
And sometimes they wouldn’t be able to dedicate the time for something like a podcast or make it the quality it deserves without asking for money.
As long as the money isn’t the sole reason they are doing it, I’m fine with that. Sometimes people are spending all their time putting out content instead of having some sort of other job, and I like people being able to live off doing something they are passionate about.
As long as it isn’t that you don’t care about the content you are putting out and are cranking it out for the money.
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I agree with @SweetAIBelle. A lot of podcasts with a Patreon are using that to pay for server space. Contrary to popular belief, everything on the Internet has to be stored somewhere and storage costs money. That they’re able to provide content to justify that is great. I only subscribe to one Patreon (The Doctor’s Beard podcast) for $5. With that, I get early access (Friday instead of Saturday) to their main episodes covering each TV story of Doctor Who; an extra shorter episode every Monday where they talk comics, news, theme variants, and occasional Big Finish and novel reviews; their coverage of the new Fifteenth Doctor episodes as they air; and whatever they cover in the gap week between seasons of Classic Who. Both hosts have jobs (one’s a teacher and the other is an author). So, not every podcast with a Patreon is a money grab.
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But I didn’t say that everything that uses Patreon is money grabbing. There are plenty of legitimate uses for it.
I was always under the impression that a sustained podcast of a decent quality is going to need a bit of a cash flow. There is an awful lot of free content on the net, particularly podcast-wise, but quite a few of the people making them do it because it’s a form of broadcasting and a way of creating their own content, content that may not make it to national radio or TV. Sometimes it’s a bit of a side hustle.
To give a couple of examples - Answer Me This is a great podcast (which has recently returned from a long hiatus). Their main episodes are always free but they would release specials which cost a bit of money (about a fiver) and their back catalogue of their first 100 episodes (I think) were also available for about 99p or 1.99 something like that. It was obviously something people were willing to pay for, although I never did (although I was tempted on a few occasions to buy one of their specials). I didn’t feel annoyed that it was behind a paywall.
Toby Hadoke’s Time Travels is another, very pertinent, example. He has the free version of his podcast which more or less includes everything he releases to patrons, the only difference being that patrons get it around six months earlier. There are a couple of patron-exclusive podcasts he does and I did sign up quite soonish to get these as they sounded great. However, I recently cancelled my patronship because he wasn’t releasing the ones I wanted as regularly as he had and the stuff he was giving I was less and less interested in. Knowing that most of what I listened to was also free, I decided to stop paying and see if I wanted to resubscribe further down the line when the stuff I really want reappears. Hadoke is always a bit embarrassed to ask for money, it seems, but does it because he’s a creative who is finding whatever he can do to bring in an income. I think a lot of podcasters are in a similar position where it’s just one string to their bow but it is a string which needs to bring in a bit of cash.
To suggest that a podcaster who asks for money but purely as an option is some sort of disingenuous money-grabber is I feel, a little unfair towards them. Suggesting they should just be doing it for the love of it may be great in theory but I imagine is not so realistic in practice.
And I’d much rather have a quick ask for a patreon or a coffee than a chunk of unrelated ads popping up halfway through. It doesn’t seem half as intrusive and, if it comes at the beginning or end of a podcast it’s easy enough to skip.
And I don’t think comparing it to TG’s patronship is a false equivalency at all. Shauny has kept the site ad-free and there are exclusive features for patrons so it is similar to patrons of podcasts getting extra material. I don’t really see it’s that different at all.
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So why are podcasts not legitimate? I’m not sure I’m understanding the delineation you’re creating.
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You know what, I’m sorry I commented.
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Good point and I completely agree.
I kind of see why someone would enjoy say, a podcast less if the creator asks for patron and such, though. I sometimes prefer to watch YouTube vedios that are clearly some teenager shooting on their phone just for fun, without intention to gain anything. I feel a parasocial connection with those kind of creator. Knowing I’m watching a random person sharing what interests them from another corner of the world feels like the early years of the internet I never got to experience. That’s an experience that polished products can’t offer.
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I apologise. It’s no excuse but I suppose being the age I am I’ve started to get odd ideas in my head about things (I saw it happen with my own grandparents and now I’m their age I’m doing the same). I’m really out of step with the world around me and I’m obviously saying stupid things. I’m a silly old fool. I’ll shut up now.
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We are glad that you are here, and confessing to making a mistake is a great thing to do. I hope that you will not shut up and will keep discussing things with us. Have a great evening.
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Oh no please don’t feel that way. I’m not that much younger than you I don’t think and a lot of the ways of the world now confuse me greatly! I think we were just reacting to the suggestion that asking for money made a podcast less worth listening to. That’s totally your perogative of course but I think we were just trying to tease out your thoughts a bit more. No judgement!
I mean, I’m no better. The moment I hear a US accent or the obvious indicators the hosts are in separate places on dodgy equipment, I’ve already switched off…
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