Yeah I read the book about a year and a half ago and I hated it for similar reasons. Could not get over Ace being uncomfortable about Gilgamesh constantly trying to touch her, and the Doctor just outright ignoring her feelings and telling her to just deal with it. Really really gross. The plot’s not horrible (although imo the writing isn’t great) but just the stuff with Gilgamesh and Ace (and the book being really weird about the one 13 year old girl???) negatively stains it forever to me. I’m nearly 30 books in to the VNAs now and it’s still my least favorite. I swear they do get better from here though
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Is this an excellent book? No. I’m only finished Chapter 3 and think that the sex stuff is getting old quick. Gilgamesh is somewhat unlikable, though I think that’s the point. Ishtar is by far the most interesting character in the book so far. I’m still looking forward to the rest of the book though.
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I think my opinion on Timewyrm: Genesys is pretty mixed. I don’t think it’s worth the strong hate it gets as a story in fandom, but rather a general shrug of disinterest. I think my main problem with it is that John Peel didn’t actually seem that interested in writing for the TARDIS team he was given, and the fact is, nothing else in the book save the Timewyrm is actually interesting enough for us to care. He seems to write 7 with a borderline disgust (perhaps most apparent when the Fourth Doctor practically appears out of nowhere, and, frankly, he doesn’t get Ace at all. It bears the classic early-VNA mistake of going too heavy on the ‘adult’ content… which is a little irritating, but never so much of a problem you can’t power through. The story itself, beyond all that, isn’t too complicated, but just about interesting enough to carry on. I’ll give Peel this - he does at least try to do something with the Timewyrm (a problem, without spoiling, Dicks and Robinson in the next two stories, won’t bother with at all) and there is some elements of Doctor Who that you can just about recognise in the mess (i.e. escaping ‘Ishtar’ and her temple, the prologue space crash, Utnapishtim and his whole storyline, to name a few). I’ll say I also liked everything in the mountains - I just wish Peel would stop lamenting over the fact it’s not his childhood Doctors - why bring 3 into this from a plot point of view???! That was all pretty solid stuff, having left behind Peel’s attempt at historical drama which perhaps some may enjoy; I just couldn’t get into it.
Overall, the book is an attempt at doing something new with Doctor Who, so I must commend that. Peel is trying throughout (and I think his later work, Evolution, and with the EDAs shows that he can improve, even if, again, I’m in no rush to read any of them) and it kind of works but whenever you get to something good he veers off into a weird rant or complaint about the current show. It had the burden of living up to the promise of starting a range - which, to be fair, Peel specifically requested - and it doesn’t come anywhere close. Perhaps for the completionist, but I always tell anyone who asks that you don’t miss a lot without it. It really is just a Weird book.
And the less said about The memory scene the better - I get what they were going for but what a silly idea!
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It’s not just that - it’s the Doctor telling her she shouldn’t have a problem with it! It’s so out of character and a disgusting message to send out. Why none of the editors got onto it (or… well, the whole book), I’ll never know
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Welcome to the forum @Lungbarrow
I agree with @Lungbarrow about most of this book, very succinctly put 
There is a decent storyline in here that is hampered by Peel’s apparent refusal to use the portrayal and personalities of our two main characters from the televised show.
I can even get around (but definitely not condone) the portrayal of an early teenage temple “worker”. The issue really becomes apparent when Ace gives voice to twentieth century morality on this issue and the Doctor chastises her harshly for adhering to this morality on which she was raised - if he did this in a public setting for the benefit of others from this society and then made an explanation to Ace and acknowledged her stance on this moral issue at a later time it would have been totally different. As it stands it is against the Doctor’s own moral code as displayed on screen. Their relationship is unnecessarily strained from the very beginning of the Virgin New Adventures something which will become a recurring theme in future books
I don’t think the entire story should be overlooked because of this “adult” content. There is an interesting villain and a decent resolution.
The issues within definitely means that this isn’t for everyone which really is a shame as the initial book of a four book arc, and indeed the series as a whole.
I rated it 3/5, problems notwithstanding.
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Thanks! Great to be here 
Thanks @BillFiler!
It’s the elephant in the room I think. I suppose the only way I can really come to terms with it is that I would argue later books probe into and really challenge the Doctor, his world view, and his relationship with the companions when he gets less human like in this scene. It’s a baggy scene which indicates the lack of serious thinking given to the book.
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@Lungbarrow really did perfectly sum up this novel. Peel can write good Doctor Who. I love his two EDA novels (despite the continuity “issues” with War of the Daleks which aren’t as bad as fandom seems to think and are just one part of a really fun action-packed novel). The biggest problem with Genesys, is that it’s written by an author who hated the featured TARDIS team and only begged for the job because he wanted to be the first. Could it have been toned down a little? Sure. But I’m still enjoying the read. You want outstanding Doctor Who, wait three books for the debut of Paul Cornell.
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Haven’t personally read it, but I know what you’re talking about. Yeah, that’ll be interesting.
Minor Timewyrm: Revelation spoilers
I think Paul Cornell does a much better job of utilizing past Doctors in Revelation. That is an example of how you do fan service correctly.
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Correction: Not his childhood Doctors, but certainly the Doctors he prefers (see: interviews, Evolution, original War of the Daleks plans, to name a few)
very faint Timewyrm: Revelation spoilers
Cornell does pretty much everything perfectly in Revelation. It’s basically the then-nearly complete history of Who in a novel; a real exploding star of a novel! Special shout out to how Cornell uses his favourite Doctor (and ironically again with the VMAs, like Peel) in a way that doesn’t detract from 7, or any era at all. If anything, it enhances the debate that Peel accidentally takes a part in here about the Doctor’s darker side.
What VNAs have you read DarthGallifrey? It’s great finally getting to speak with people who’ve read them. What are your favourites?
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Of the VNAs, I’ve read the Timewyrm novels, the Alternate History cycle (Blood Heat through No Future), First Frontier, Set Piece, Original Sin, Human Nature, The Dying Days, and possibly Lungbarrow. All except for Original Sin and now Timewyrm: Genesys were read pre-Covid so I don’t remember details.
I live in the USA, so I’m kinda at the mercy of my library system and whatever they’re able to get from other libraries through their excellent Inter-Library Loan program.
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Some great stuff here though! I actually got into them during COVID myself. I was (and am) a huge 6 fan so I was buying all his books for lockdown and thought I’d try a few others in the series…
A couple months (well, maybe nearer a year by the time I got a hold of The Dark Path, which was easily the most difficult of the set to get - I got it from America) I had them all. Well, it was lockdown, there was nothing else to spend money on 
! As I got close to the end, I decided to jump the bandwagon into the VNAs and I’ve never looked back! They’ve made 7 my new fave (sorry, 6) for sure. They’re a real comfort era, especially the 12 book run with Roz, Chris and Benny all at once. I know this discussion is all about Timewyrm: Genesys, but if I were to recommend only one VNA, it’d be The Also People every single time!
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I’ve read several various novels in the past 13 years since I discovered the show. It’s just that the comics and audios are a lot easier to get a hold of.
I started lungbarrow at one point, but decided I needed to start at the begging of the VNAs first
I totally agree. I’m always torn on Lungbarrow. It’s a phenomenal story with some incredible atmospheres and ideas, both influencing each other in this gorgeously dark cycle. I could (and would one day love to) do an essay about it - alongside several other VNAs - but, to be honest, I don’t think a reader can/will appreciate the full intensity of the story without having read a fair few VNAs. It’s the ending of a series - we wouldn’t recommend Power of the Doctor to casual viewers, even if we thought the story was good!
(That said, if anyone here has read it on its own, I’m sure you enjoyed it too!)
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So, I’ve just made it through Chapter 6. The Doctor and Ace are starting to sound more like the Doctor and Ace. What Ishtar’s up to is intriguing (yes, I do know what it is). Also, I’m liking Ninani, the princess of Kish. She’s an intelligent young woman who I could easily see apprearing in a television story. So far, the good is outweighing the bad for me.
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I’ve just finished this! And what can I say, I don’t get all the hate.
Yes, some bits are weird and uncomfortable, and the Doctor “condoning” them because of the culture and timeframe is a bit unsettling but actually, what else are they supposed to do? Rewrite history and try to change society thousands of years earlier?
I thought it was very fast paced and interesting - and the villain was brilliant. I kinda guessed the ending because, well, it’s the name of the book but other than that it was fun, I’ve not read a book that quickly in a long time.
If this is one of the worst VNAs, I’m super excited to keep reading the series!
I give it 3.5 / 5.
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I also finished this tonight, and while I’ve seen plenty of good points raised about the contents of the story, the characterization, and Peel’s writing style, I have to agree with @shauny here: I don’t see why this is such a loathed story among the fandom. I mean, yes, Seven is uncharacteristically harsh, Ace feels a bit off, and the tone is very different from Classic Who, but it’s not too bad. All the violence, depictions of sex, rape, barechested women, and such was distracting to begin with, but in the final third of the book, the mature content was reduced to almost zero. This is where the book feels more like a traditional, escapist sci-fi story, and I quite liked where Peel took the narrative and how he set up the remaining three installments of the Timewyrm saga.
Ishtar is a well-written and formidable villain, and I have to say that Peel managed to make her more than simply big words and nasty speechees, as is often the case with Doctor Who villains. Although Gilgamesh is undeniably a jerk and a certified a-hole, that is likely the point, and fortunately, the novel shifts its focus away from him around the halfway point. Enkidu is a fun supporting character (I have always loved these big and brutish sidekicks with a real heart and a sense of honour), and the princess is wonderfully brave, though she could have played a bigger part in the story.
Peel puts good focus on fleshing out the setting and the era, so it feels alive. There was a lot of focus on the culture and customs of Mesopotamia, and Peel makes us understand that they were very different from our ways and that that’s how it should be, however wrong we find them today.
The Third Doctor thing towards the end felt a bit stupid and clearly shows that Peel would have liked to write a story with him instead of Seven.
This was interesting, easy to read, and fast-paced, especially in the last third, even if the overall plot felt very traditional. So, I’ll give it a 7/10!
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