I extrapolated that Future Venice is probably a rather isolated nation state in a post-war/cataclysm Earth; there are enough “Oh shit we have to leave the planet” plots available to justify it. As for the 15th Century cosplay, I put that down to decadence, stagnation, boredom; Venice is one of the cities of the world with the largest cultural cachet, so it wasn’t a huge stretch for me to believe that ancient traditions were being brought up. They all did believe in a curse, after all. Fatalistic societies became quite a hallmark of the Eighth Doctor’s tenure, and I think the Future Venice portrayed here is a nice example. It feels crumbly, it feels gothic, it works for me.
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Finished this quite quickly in the end and forgot to post my final thoughts. I do like this but the ‘sci-fi’ explanation is all a bit vague and may as well be magic. It’s a shame when the show feels the need to ‘rationalise’ the more fantasy elements - which is partly why I’ve enjoyed RTD leaning into that in the latest series without the need for technobabble to make it ‘fit’ the show. Fantasy has always fit the show - it’s never needed the rationale.
The future setting still bugs me especially as the city is renewed at the end. This could easily have been set in Renaissance Venice and would, for me, have been a far more natural time and place rather than the nebulous ‘23rd Century’ which has literally nothing to suggest that time and place at all. I get what @turnoftheearth is saying but, for me, there isn’t enough in the script to warrant it as an interpretation and beyond the ‘we’re in the 23rd Century’ lines at the very start, there is practically nothing that furthers that idea.
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I recently updated my old review for 'The Stones of Venice’ from the other site, and it’s now available to read here on TARDIS Guide.
Paul Magrs is regarded by many as an excellent comedy writer, which is why listening to something stunningly melancholic like this adventure completely floored me first time round.
‘Stones’ is - put simply - an underrated classic. The characters are channeling camp to the nth degree, and the setting is just beautifully sad.
This was supposedly the first adventure McGann and Fisher actually recorded - you cannot tell, cause they both hit the ground running.
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Finally got around to listening to this one, and I think it’s my favourite eighth doctor story so far (not that hard given that I’ve only listened to the two previous ones). The plot was a bit simple/guessable at the beginning but I think that really works for audios as I otherwise often get confused on what’s happening, that wasn’t the case here. And anyway, this story is more of a fairytale. What really makes me like this story is the atmosphere, the sinking city and the grief associated with that are sold beautifully.
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I’m afraid I didn’t like this one.
I agree with @deltaandthebannermen that this being ‘Future’ Venice doesn’t come across at all in the dialogue, the setting, the story… I actually had to have a double take and check that I hadn’t misheard that they were in the future.
Then there’s things like everyone being so causal about the Duke living for 100 years, and the web-footed gondoleers (evolution does not work like that, sorry). It’s just really bizarre.
Plus the Doctor knew that this was ‘the day’ that Venice crumbles (which makes no sense because surely that would happen over a long period of time, not in one day), despite it not happening in the end - so was this a non-fixed point in time?
The dialogue was nice and clever but the story was boring and forgettable. I really dislike stories about cults and sacrifices, and felt that Charley being drugged and then potentially married off was gross.
Just not my cup of tea!
It’s a 4/10 from me. I do notice however, reading everyone’s comments that a lot of people disliked it at first and then warmed up to it upon re-listening. I don’t have time to re-listen, as I want to listen to everything so maybe I’m doing it a disservice. But, onwards!
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This is due to the ‘fairytale’ aspect which feeds into Charley’s role too. I quite like that aspect of it (always been a lover of fairy tales) but I can see why it might be unpalatable to some. The Charley drugged stuff is weird because I’d love to know which drugs make her say exactly what she needs to say. It’s more like she’s possessed and knows all the words that should be spoken which doesn’t really make sense.
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I think this story is generally better than the previous two but honestly I can’t bring myself to care enough about it to review it. All I can say is I liked it less on relisten, which is apparently unusual.
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You took the words out of my mouth!
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I’m with those who found the story & characters to be inconsistent with the setting. If it had been medieval Venice, or better still an alien planet with a city based around waterways “just like Venice”, it would have been fine, but I simply could not buy in to this being set on Earth in the 23rd Century, sorry.
Having said that, I enjoyed the story itself, & 8 and Charley especially, but my feelings about the setting haven’t changed since I first listened to this one 20-odd years ago
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I don’t remember much from when I first heard this 7 years ago, but I greatly enjoyed it this time. It has such a gloomy, meloncholy atmosphere and aome lovely lines of dialogue. I didn’t remember anything about the cult or stuff but I love a cult so that was nice. I found the plot a bit predictable but it was fine, the atmosphere was just lovely to experience.
I agree with @deltaandthebannermen and @shauny that nothing about the story evokes the 23rd century at all.
I quite liked the end and reflecting on the story a bit. The nature of love. The state of the cult at the end. Venice being renewed. Not a great favourite of mine but I enjoyed it a lot on this second listen.
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I’m new to big finish, and I started with 8s first 4 stories in the main range. This one was by far my favourite. I had that moment that a new doctor clicks with you where they really are the doctor at the end of this episode, when the doctor is at the climax of this story. But I also love that in the end all of the doctor’s words couldn’t save the day quite like the power in the reunion of an old couple embracing each other
It has such a charm which emphasises the beauty and power of humanity which I always think Dr who does best. The atmosphere and dialogue are brilliant, although I do agree with other people who said it didn’t seem fitting for a Venice of the far future, I completely forgot it was supposed to be the far future some way into the story. Perhaps they didnt want to do a historical where they’d have to fit the plot into our history and do all the explaining that comes with them, and we don’t ever know what the future will look like so it could look just like the past, especially somewhere like Venice where history is likely to be preserved with the most dedication. But a bit of explanation, even if it did just confirm that, would’ve been good.
I’m a defender of the times when doctor who gets fantastical, a fairy tale or a fable is what Dr Who should be first before anything and so I love this story, its an 8.5/10 for me
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I loved it. Don’t get me wrong, I won’t say that it’s a perfect story, but something really drew me in unlike Sword of Orion. I was excited to listen to this one.
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